First Class Cadet Logbooks

So, with these now having been in place for a while, has anyone found a sensible way to deal with the multiple signatures and task forms that are now required.

I am tryingn to work out wether it takes longer for the cadets to fill in their bits in the book, or staff to assess, sign and update.

IET for example requires at least 16 signatures per cadet and that is just for the PASS grade, let alone any merit or distinction. :crying:

It wouldnt be too bad if the Cadets got to keep them as a momento/record but as they are to be kept on Squadron during their use, then sent to Wing to Archive I am wondering what the point of them is.

So much for reducing the burden on staff and administration. :mad:

Ho hum!

[quote=“bigmalcmk” post=16392] but as they are to be kept on Squadron during their use, then sent to Wing to Archive I am wondering what the point of them is.[/quote]Part of the audit trail for the BTEC AS should the issuing authority decide to do a random check.

According to the ACTO for the First Class Logbooks, the Squadron should archive them. 12 Months after the Cadet has passed the Master Cadet Classification you can give them their Logbook back, so if they stick around they do get to keep it in the end.

However, I do agree with you regarding all the signatures. For the Part 3 subjects (Airmanship, Map Reading, IET, Radio), maybe instead of all the Activity Assessment Sheets, they could just do what they have for Part 1&2 - a table in the front of the booklet in which you can tick off the Activity Assessments.

I still havent seen one of these yet not a single one has arrived on our Sqn which is really getting on my wick.

As normal my “Boss” has decided just to ask Second class cadets a few questions after a leasson and if they get them right give them the badge… :mad:

[quote=“zinggy” post=16404]I still havent seen one of these yet not a single one has arrived on our Sqn which is really getting on my wick.[/quote]Have you ordered them? I’ve seen orders turned around in about a week.

Well our training officer keeps telling me they are on order when I bug her every week about them

seconded…our “First Class training Officer” orders these Monday and with use within the week…

You don’t happen to have a weird, local procedure for ordering them, do you?

It should be as simple as completing ACTO19 Annex B electronically and emailing it to Cranwell Repro (email address is on the form)
Note: the form (and I think the email address) changed a week or so ago.

Mine have been arriving between 3 and 5 working days after putting the request in.

This approach worked for years and years and I bet that the cadets (I was one who went through what you dislike, mannnnnnny year ago) are/were better equipped for ‘life’ in the ATC than many are now, with umpteen signatures and a booklet.

I set up 2 tests (in case they didn’t pass) for the Basics (as we used to call them) 20 odd years ago and it worked for years and still does as a COU. They sat the exam at the end of their training, no bitty modern rubbish, and they invariably passed. They had Unfortunately across all classification training we’ve had, I suspect, modern educationalists sticking their oars in and what we have now is unholy mess, that is geared to the dogmatic administration mindset and not the pragmatic mindset. Why you need to sign loads of times serves no material purpose and is IMO just means someone can point the finger if it goes wrong, ie you sign it, if there’s a problem someone can come after you.

As said so much for the admin redction programme!!!

We used to have a hard cover loose-leaf affair called ACP31 General Training with all the subjects in (probably got one in mine or my parents loft) and lord knows how, it worked well as a resource for years, but then we probably didn’t have so many mandarins looking to invent and or keep a job.

You can give the log books to cadets, but they, like the Cadet CV, are pointless and be archived in B1N or introduced to Mr Cross Cut.

What First Class log books…?

Example copy HERE
See also ACTO19

We’ve been using the log books for a few months now and ours always arrive promptly after ordering.

I like the concept of them but as previously mentioned there are far too many signature boxes, one thing in particular I dislike is the fact that in addition to the book itself we have to fill out umpteen extra sheets!

Does anyone (heretical suggestion) not do the subjects in the order that they are in the book / the TG forms?

In all my years of instructing Basic cadets, I have never started with the ATC, history and or organisation. I’ve done IET, Airmanship or Map Reading. ATC is covered 3rd or 4th. I can’t imagine the thought process (unless it was a lazy day and they’d gone to the pub) that felt doing the ATC and Drill was a good way to enthuse new young cadets. Drill, surely, is done throughout the classification and not a couple of weeks.

Thanks. Never seen that before and hadn’t heard a whisper of it through official channels. Do they expect us to accidentally blunder across such things?

So we’ve gone from ‘First Class is too academic and it’s putting off new recruits. We’ll now just do simple checks of understanding’ to the complete polar opposite…

And as has been said; so much for reducing the admin burden…

It strikes me that it’s more academic in some ways. The first incarnation of the COU was about as vague as an “examination” as you could get, but now in parts of this it is more academic in terms of the answers required. But why does it have to be a book?
The problem is that apart from the old ACPs, which are no longer printed, there is no text material for intructors to use. Yes there are things on Ultilearn, but less said the better.

It strikes me that it’s more academic in some ways. The first incarnation of the COU was about as vague as an “examination” as you could get, but now in parts of this it is more academic in terms of the answers required. But why does it have to be a book?
The problem is that apart from the old ACPs, which are no longer printed, there is no text material for intructors to use. Yes there are things on Ultilearn, but less said the better.[/quote]

Simply because Ultilearn would crash under the sheer amount of users accessing it to take 1st class exams. Official line.

Bumped to use the thread for some questions.

No 1 - is there an answer sheet available? I know that clearly I should know all of the answers, but that’s not always easy when I don’t understand what the asker of the questions is actually on about. For example: “Name of aircraft, its use and key features” on Airmanship… well I thought that the use of air cadet aircraft was delivery of flying training to air cadets, but clearly that would be the same answer for all three. Do they mean role, eg AEF/VGS? Type as in powered, SLG and winch-launched glider? I could guess, but it’d be nice to have the official line.

Also from airmanship “Following the safety equipment briefing, undertake a practical
test.” I didn’t know we were scaled for flying helmets and one of those parachute cord testing devices… assuming we don’t have any safety equipment, what sort of practical test are we meant to be running here?

Edit: found this on TWV sharepoint, answers to FCC Logbooks.

https://sharepoint.bader.mod.uk/SouthWestRegion/TVWing/TDSU/Shared%20Documents/Forms/AllItems.aspx?RootFolder=https%3A%2F%2Fsharepoint.bader.mod.uk%2FSouthWestRegion%2FTVWing%2FTDSU%2FShared%20Documents%2F1%20Cadet%20Development%2F1%20Ground%20Training%20(Syllabus)%2F1%20Junior%20Cadet%20and%20First%20Class%2FInduction%20and%20Junior%20Cadet%20Training%20Materials%2FFirst%20Class%20Instructors%20Workshop%20(FCIW)&FolderCTID=0x012000C38EFBCBE7964245917B9B2EB6A31E81

As a quick response, all the answers you need are available via Ulitlearn - make sure that you’ve downloaded the latest version as they appear to tweak things.

Apologies for resurrecting a long dead thread.

Does anyone know what the current process for ordering first class logbooks is? I haven’t had to do it for so long I can’t remember how or if it’s even still possible.