Female cover on activities

Adult Staff The Staff Mess
1

Just a quick one folks, had a good look around ACATI but can’t see what I’m after…

When running an activity during the day only (no overnight) is female cover required? I am aware it is required overnight but it was my understanding that cover is only required when staying overnight? Could someone point me in the direction of the relevant document for this?

Many thanks.

2

Nevermind sorted it now.

Ta.

3

well dont leave us in the dark…sharing is caring…spill the reference which helped you out as it may well help others out in future!

4

I have just been told that I must have female cover on my remembrance parade and not having any DBSed females (who parade :mad: ) on my sqn WHq have said that females cant take part on paeade. :mad:

Could you point me in the direction of what you found ACP 4 Ch2.8 is a bit woolly going on about the NSPCC and best practice.
I work in a school and they do not insist on having both genders for cover. As long as the ratios are covered then fine…
Also while on ATF course a few years ago it was stated after I asked the question about both gender cover on day events (esp Adv Trg) they said as long as ratios were covered then go ahead.
What happens with flying with 3 cadet; 2 male and one female do we need two staff?
What happens when girls turn up on a parade night and female member of staff cries off ill do I send the girls home?
If I do not have a female member of staff on my books do I not recruit girls?
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

5

Agreed, that’s absolute [color=#ff0000][REMOVED][/color]. There’s one squadron in our wing with only female staff. Do they get told to recruit only female cadets or provide male staff for all activities involving male cadets? Do they heck.

That’s right up there with those other great oft-heard myths: That drivers, building contractors and civcom members must be CRB/DBSd and that all vehicles must contain female staff where female cadets are present - all utter ordure.

6

I’ll say the same thing I say every time this topic rears its head in whatever guise it may be:

What about the gay staff and cadets?

7

Sorry folks! Should have posted it:

Please see below:

ACP4 Chapter 2 wrote:

Adult to child ratios and mixed gender groups

  1. When working with groups of children or young people, it is important that the level of supervision is appropriate to their age group and their needs, which may be very specific. In general, younger children need to be more closely supervised and will require a higher adult to child ratio. For voluntary organisations, the NSPCC recommend that for children aged 13 – 18 years there should be at least 1 adult to 10 children. If the group is mixed gender, the supervising staff should also include both male and female members of staff, wherever possible. If this is not possible, both male and female adult supervisors are to be available ‘on call’ during ACO activities…Whilst respecting privacy at all times, an adult supervisor must attend and remain with any cadet who receives any medical or first aid treatment. If the adult supervisor is not of the same gender as the cadet, he/she must be accompanied by another person of the same gender to act as chaperone (this could be another cadet). Further guidance on adult supervision requirements can be found in the relevant ACATIs, ACTOs, ACPEdTIs and in ACP 237.

In my mind the “wherever possible” means it would be best practice to have female cover, but not essential.

8

When my kids were at Primary School there were no male staff other than the caretaker until my middle child was in year 6 and the first male teacher IIRC in 15 years prior to that.
Even at Secondary the staffing was only 20% male, excluding the “site team” and when you looked at support staff (teaching/pastoral) in the 8 years the 3 of them were there only 1 of these was male and he only joined when my lad was in the 4th year and left after 3 years.
Even in recent years when I have visited schools a male face in the pastoral staff is a rarity.
Scouting/Guiding again is predominately female especially in the younger groups…
Even when families split up the mother invariably gets custody.
So it must be an interesting experience for cadets joining the Corps and finding a predominately male staffing as it doesn’t fit with their general experience.

I find it amusing that as a male (a dad with daughters) that I can’t deal with the sort of things that crop up. It would be difficult to get something that I’ve not experienced. I remember a mum coming in to see one of the female staff to explain about her daughters absence and reluctance to do things, only to talk to me when they weren’t there. She faffed around and I broke the ice with a line about periods, after which it was fine. FFS I’m married and have daughters (apart from doing the ATC for years) so hardly something new,

9

[quote=“tango_lima” post=21777]I’ll say the same thing I say every time this topic rears its head in whatever guise it may be:
What about the gay staff and cadets?[/quote]
Best brushed under the carpet as the permutations could make segregation too complicated to manage and it would realistically require full disclosure of personal preferences.

However, by logical extension it could be argued that if there is no deep concern with the chance of gay cadets or staff mixing, why so much concern with gender-matched supervision?

10

[quote=“incubus” post=21784]
However, by logical extension it could be argued that if there is no deep concern with the chance of gay cadets or staff mixing, why so much concern with gender-matched supervision?[/quote]

That was really the point I was making…

11

:blink:
What the polldarks is that about!!?
Has some civil servant somewhere suffered a minor brain haemorrhage?

12

Confirmed by WHQ, unless I can find a female member of staff then I cannot parade female cadets.

13

In the interests of fairness and equality you should withdraw completely from the parade.

14

In the interests of fairness and equality you should withdraw completely from the parade.[/quote]

Sound good to me.
I am so hacked off with this I could get mildly annoyed.

15

Why would you need a female member of staff? I cannot understand this.

16

Who has said this? Your WExO? Wg CO?

17

That’s bovine ordure.

18

We have used female Instructor cadets as the Adult female chaperone before. They are an adult, they have a DBS Clearance. What more is required?

Ask about your local units to borrow someone to cover? This is someones over tight interpretation of the rules, but whilst you should push back with a challenge, it should also be possible to find a way round it and for the parade to continue.

19

WHQ have confirmed with HQAC a female member of staff must be “on call” at all times.

How can you confirm this on the PIPE?

This is a more important question. Why do you need staff of both genders?
Do we insist on same sex pilots for AEF/GIC?
What happens when you take three of your little darlings away for flying (in our wing it is 3 cadets per day)… You pick cadets of both genders. Do you need two members of staff.

I work in a school the LEA do not insist on staff of both genders.
my wife works as a youth leader providing clubs both for the local authority and for schools. None of the governing body’s or operating authorities insist on both genders. You are a trained youth leader or CFAV you are not a trained CFAV (M) and CFAV (F) and you can only look after the same sex. This is a huge restriction on how the smaller sqn will operate
Why does HQAC.

20

Nah looked at it and as they don’t understand the first thing about the Corps, other than it gives them somewhere to go each day to file their nails, drink tea/coffee and eat biscuits, said no, because they read something about needing female cover if female cadets are present.
I’d complain to the ARC (copy Wg Cdr and WSO) as they line manage Wing HQ staff, just to let him know the misfits they’ve employed.