I am intrigued to hear, I guess predominantly from those on westminster that have had a sneaky peak at the shiny new cough cough ACP16, whether there is any mention of EAMs?
Or alternatively, are any Wgs out there using them? Given that the ACO is now progressively rolling out the use of RAMs over RASPs, and the ACF have been teaching EAMs since June last year on the KGVI Cse.
Surely, it makes sense for us to use them to cover at the very least, the BDE, if not the ADEs we conduct.
How does a ‘shiny new copy of ACP16’ appear on Westminster? I’ve seen Westminster and I can’t find anything about ACP16 on there. Do you have any sort of link\file structure to go on?
EAM’s are used for Battle Exercises involving blank firing and the use of pyrotechnics. The only people in the ACO who conduct blank firing are JL’s, so no-one else needs to use EAM’s. For B\ADE’s, the current (Jul 11) revision of ACP16 contains an example EASP and Admin Instruction and these documents should be used until further notice.
[quote=“Gunner” post=7359]
EAM’s are used for Battle Exercises involving blank firing and the use of pyrotechnics. The only people in the ACO who conduct blank firing are JL’s, so no-one else needs to use EAM’s. For B\ADE’s, the current (Jul 11) revision of ACP16 contains an example EASP and Admin Instruction and these documents should be used until further notice.[/quote]
An EAM is a simplified version of an EASP. Guidance for us green types were issued as follows:
[quote]
An EAM should be used over EASP when training consists of a single phase, coy level or below, exercise held on a known training area using procedures which are familiar to cadets and CFAVs. In essence this will cover a significant amount of field training. If a higher level of detail is required an EASP is to be produced; an example would be a three day exercise with consecutive serials for a 3* cadre or similar.[/quote]
If you don’t need an EAM, you don’t need an EASP. If you need an EASP, you might be able to replace it with an EAM.
The next amendment to Pam 21C is supposed include EAMs and RAMs. Whether or not any of this helps you blue types I don’t know.
There hasn’t been any amendments (that I’m aware of) to ACP16 since July 2011. The last instruction issued through this amendment was that EASP’s and Admin Instructions for Basic and Advanced Deployed Exercises are still to be used.
There is nothing that I’ve seen disseminated through the ACO CoC that countermands that and replaces it with EAM’s.
That’s going from the other post in this forum; Copy of ACP 16.
I haven’t seen it or heard anything official, but the post infers it is on Westminster, hence my asking.
And I appreciate your argument over EAMs being used for exercises involving blank and pyro, however, PAM 21 C says the same of an EASP; that it is to be used for exercises involving B&P. So, acknowledging the fact that the ‘parent’ manual as it were has changed and we are now producing RAMs instead of RASPs, have people made the switch to EAMs over EASPs?
Given that nowhere in ATC publications have I seen mentions of RAMs over RASPs, I wandered if EAMs now appear in the postulated update to ACP16, given that they are now accepted as substantial enough for B&P exercises, surely they are substantial enough for our use on BDE/ADE.
There is no ‘update’ to ACP16 thats been disseminated down through the CoC. I also fail to see why it would be on Westminster as that’s primarily an ACF\CCF(Army) tool.
Green monkey may be getting a bit confused as [quote=talon]Sounds unnecessarily large to me. Our brand spanking new fieldcraft manual is a 10MB pdf, including a section on TIBUA[/quote] in the thread about ACP 16.
That’s going from the other post in this forum; Copy of ACP 16.
I haven’t seen it or heard anything official, but the post infers it is on Westminster, hence my asking.
And I appreciate your argument over EAMs being used for exercises involving blank and pyro, however, PAM 21 C says the same of an EASP; that it is to be used for exercises involving B&P. So, acknowledging the fact that the ‘parent’ manual as it were has changed and we are now producing RAMs instead of RASPs, have people made the switch to EAMs over EASPs?
Given that nowhere in ATC publications have I seen mentions of RAMs over RASPs, I wandered if EAMs now appear in the postulated update to ACP16, given that they are now accepted as substantial enough for B&P exercises, surely they are substantial enough for our use on BDE/ADE.[/quote]
EASPs have not been replaced (neither have RASPs for that matter).
What has happened is that SASC has created two documents that CF RCOs and ECOs must produce on or before the day of use. They are forms that have to be filled in by hand. They are cadet force specific designed to cut down on admin time needed for alot of the low level training that all of the cadet forces carry out (compared to the Regulars/TA) and also to ensure that Range/Training Area Standing orders are actually being read, rather than just copying and pasting from previous RASPs and EASPs. You still have to produce your own conducting notes.
An EAM is only good for simple Blank firing. If you want to use Pyro then you must write a full EASP.
What does not help anything is that PAM 21-C has not yet been updated to reflect EAMs and RAMs and when they should be used (we are relying on Policy letters at the minute.).
I have no idea how the above affects the ACO as I am CCF(A).
That is mostly incorrect- The RAM/EAM is forces wide and not just for CFAV, They are in place for all training of a simple and cyclic nature, for example a Range you use ever month or a training ex carried out the same way the same time very year, or for EAM for BL/BE delivered as part of a camp where a longer admin order covers the bigger and longer camp period leaving individual ECO to run smaller BE/BL
The are handwritten as they are an Aide Memoir for that days range and are for the use of the ECO/RCO alone, although some RAU are now asking for the RAM to be left on Ranges and some TSA are asking for view of the EAM beforehand. There is no requirement to retain the EAM after use although common sense say it is a good idea that someone does, The RAU for example. It also covers all ammunition type required for the ex including Pyro.
We apply to each year, with the adequately qualified staff, don’t know about last year but the previous 2 years one piece of paper was missing, to prevent it taking place.
That is not a wholly accurate representation.[/quote]
Only basing this off a quick read of the admin order, however the terminology is there and being used.
We apply to each year, with the adequately qualified staff, don’t know about last year but the previous 2 years one piece of paper was missing, to prevent it taking place.
[/quote]You mean it was absent from your submission, or it wasn’t available?
Because the first would surely be remedied by re-applying with the correct paperwork.
Has anyone received approval to do B&P ‘In house’ as it were?
Is paperwork being approved purely on the basis of someone holding SA(M)07 Cadets and a suitable number of current, competent EAs?
This goes back to my whole original argument, in that someone who has recently picked up the M Qual has been formally trained in EAMs can use them for B&P, yet going by ACP16, would still have to submit a full EASP to take 10 cadets to a training area to teach cam and concealement…
Like the Pam 5C amendment it has been promised for some time. Hopefully within the next few months…
[quote=“green monkey” post=7459]
This goes back to my whole original argument, in that someone who has recently picked up the M Qual has been formally trained in EAMs can use them for B&P, yet going by ACP16, would still have to submit a full EASP to take 10 cadets to a training area to teach cam and concealement…[/quote]
I was told that not only do you need Qualified and current staff, but the right kit, and that there are no Blanks or Pyro allocated to the ACO apart from JL. It was pointed out to me that we have no staff who are able to move Pyro due to it being in a higher explosive Cat than SAA.
Starts to seem reasonable- we did one two years ago with the ACF, the cadets enjoyed it and it was under their system with their kit and admin- We helped where we could and they got on with it,job jobbed!
