New IBN has been issued with a reminder about Driving Hours - IBN 16 - Management of Drivers Duty Hours during RAFAC Activities I think our biggest issue is when on residential activity, so I suspect driver plans will be required for future camps
Itâs always amazed me how informal we seem to be when it comes to MT. Iâve called people out multiple times for being over hours, or putting them selves in what I would consider to be a dodgy situation. But it is often overlooked.
Driving a minibus is honestly one of the riskiest things we do. I think. Yet it often seems very informal!
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Probably, and I suspect the emphasis on this will lead to more âsupportâ staff on camps
Itâs called normalised behaviour so via custom & culture dangerous & unprofessional behaviour goes unchallenged. Classic example was WW2 pilots in peacetime were so use to cutting corners & doing their own thing that at one stage in the 50s the loss of life from aircraft accidents was higher than peak WW2 combat.
What doesnât help is bureaucratic overthinking & trying to apply full work regulations to volunteers without adapting particularly in grey area as it just undermines the safety culture thatâs trying to be created.
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Record Keeping: Drivers are to comply with all record-keeping requirements mandated by EU regulations
should that read âUK regulationsâ?
not wanting to thread drift into a Brexit debate but surprised this is in there ??
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Because there are already an abundance of those as we all know.
Malta & Gibraltar overseas Sqns?
fair point well made
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We still follow their rules!
To be fair the aircraft in the 50s were for the jet age a very immature technology and the handling characteristics were far different than prop aircraft. The meteor and later the Canberra and Lightning were awful to fly in some situation. Then there were few two seaters for training and no simulators.
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My biggest problem with this IBN is recording driving / working hours on legacy forms and putting responsibility on the volunteer to retain paper records for two years. Isnât this what MyDrive is for?
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Drivers hours, staff dediacated to welfare, overnight supervisory staff etc⌠all things that we should be doing with separate staff so as our activity deliverers get suitable rest to deliver the activities.
This goes against what the general rule of the RCs is that you need as few staff as possible, with some directing that you canât have more than 1:10 ratio or that some must go unpaid if going above a certain threshold.
There needs to be some common sense thinking to this from above.
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What would be the consequence on a volunteer not keeping them for two years?
Paid person =fired but I donât know what action if any you would be able take against a volunteer.
Is it not a legal responsibility. So it would be a fine?
Youâre new here obviouslyâ:grin:
this reminds me of a occasion when as event IC, and also driver IC for a visit to an airshow the Sector Officer who wanted to know more about the event suggested that I couldnât drive back.
me: Why is that sir?
Him: You will be âover hoursâ by the time you start the end to begin the return journey
me: how do you work that out sir?
him: driving there hours + time on activity hours = not enough hours left to drive home
me: what do you think i am doing between the driving?
him: you are on duty
me: yes, but doing what - it is an airshow at the beach, once we arrive, the Cadets split into (groups no smaller than 3), I then find my spot and sit on the beach for the next 6 hours on âbreakâ until such time i need to head to the RV point to meet the cadets, find the car park and drive home.
him: ahhâŚwellâŚhumph
Common sense was lacking until he realised my âon dutyâ would also be sat on the beach doing little more than looking up, a bit left and a bit right!
i guess we wonât find out until such time they are called for - and only then likely to be linked to an incident as evidence of what took place.
the consequence of not having the paperwork to show a driver was suitably in hours/rested might prove significant in certain circumstances - but that would be known soon after the incident so for a ânothing to reportâ event who will ever know if they have been kept for 2 days, 2 weeks or 2 years?
I suppose if someone makes a formal accusation that you went way over your hours and it was dangerous, but only made that accusation a year after the event for what ever reason. Youâd then be asked to produce your hours log to prove if you went over or not. No log, no evidence to defend your self!
exactly - but in that case a driver is likely to be able to see it coming - someone with a grudge who wants to/likes to kick up a fuss or something that means all the staff would be looked at more closely.
otherwise without the evidence as a defence what might happen? banned from driving seems extreme if there is no evidence hours were exceeded (as by virtue if a driver cannot prove they were within hours it doesnât prove they were over) so perhaps at most a reeducation of the expected forms to use?
Local rules and Gibraltar, Jersey Guernsey and the Isle of Man are independent Crown dependencies who make their own laws, therefore not subject to UK law.
Is this another Special Kism to stop any outside activities??