You’re not wrong Matt. Perhaps my comment should have been more directly aimed at what I have seen as the ever increasing number of ‘professional cadets’ in this organisation who, in a lot of cases have an unwillingness to accept that anything other than what they were told when they were a cadet is correct. But that is perhaps for a separate thread. I felt it unfair of Steve to point the finger at ex-Regulars (because I am one) for the failure of a large proportion of this organisation to accept things may be different from the commonly held line.
[quote=“MattB” post=22504]It is much harder to tell them that they’re wrong when the drill manual says they’re right though!
Or even if it says that you’re both wrong.[/quote]
I just find the whole situation highly ironic. Wasn’t the whole point of ditching ACP19 to prevent this sort of insanity? Not it seems we have the same issues as before, only now it’s not just our DIs who can’t agree on things, it’s the parent service DIs as well.
EDIT: in fact, we’re probably worse off than we were before, because at least then we (nominally) had the power to amend our own publication.
I dont mean to point the finger or tar the brush of all…please don’t think i see the ex-regulars all as one.
typically much like the “professional Cadets” you mention, i know of “old school” WOs who are arguably past their prime and ready to hang up the uniform who are antiquated in their approach and attitude toward the book believe they know best.
(the same could be said for those Cadets going into Staff roles equally being ignorant, their past experienced seen to be the authority on the matter which people dont think to question)
it is always the minority that spoil it for the majority and this is a prime example of that.
please accept my apology for any undue offence or insult caused…it was not aimed at anyone directly or at the wider regulars as a whole.
Offence not taken Steve and apology not necessary!
What is highlighted here yet again is the piecemeal way in which things are disseminated.
Years ago wrt drill someone would go to ACTC, later ATF, and supposedly come back full of new ways of doing things. If they were different / new, because it was expensive to do, it never really got out into the ATC world, other than by word of mouth. As a result interpretation crept in and no one did it the same. A large proportion of “changes” were purely interpretation of what had been said/done, but were incorporated. The cause of this was HQAC’s lack of desire to issue changes because it was expensive or repudiate them for the same reason, did they care, probably not. So frankly it is unfair to say people who’ve been in the Corps for years point blank refuse to accept things may have changed, because the pysche is of one that has been numbed and grown to be suspicious of things that are said to have changed. I can remember times over the last nigh on 40 years when, especially drill supposedly changed from one thing and back for the reasons as described above. So as a result people stay with what they were told / did years ago as there is a feeling we’ll all jump and then have to jump back and repeat the process.
The dissemination hasn’t altered with the EWOW because people still pick things up piecemeal, because HQAC haven’t got their heads around diseminating things properly and then maintaining proper amendment protocols, like what we used to have and has been batted around on here several times. When changes do come about you take one look at how big the document is and wince at how much it will cost the squadron to print it.
There is also an element of why do staff unless they feel a burning desire (with the exception of SOME SNCOs) once they have passed their basic course, need to “re-learn” drill, because we’re not going to do anything where someone will pick holes, such as a competition. If you can march smartly and chuck one up in the appropriate place, outside of being on a course you aren’t going to do much more than ‘parade drill’ . I personally want staff doing things other than drill, unless that is their tasking or need to do it for an ATF course. As said in this thread, RAF personnel don’t do drill regularly, if at all, once off basic / trade training, (unless they are in the QCS) and only do so when they get told they have to do a parade and then go out and do it until the next time they fail to duck. So why should there be an expectation that a very large majority of ATC staff behave any differently?
If this DVD is as good as is said every single squadron should get one, so that people who want to or need to can use it. I could see one of my SNCOs who is a DI wannabe, almost salivating at the thought of it, which is fine because it’s what they get excited about.
All that said how much has drill actually changed over the years? How many ways can you turn, stop, start etc? Whoever makes these changes is only doing so to justify job and or salary.
[quote=“glass half empty 2” post=22520]All that said how much has drill actually changed over the years? [/quote]As far as I can tell, twice in the ATC in the fifteen-odd years I’ve been around.
Once when it went from “attention” to “shun”, and once recently when we binned ACP19.
[quote=“glass half empty 2”]What is highlighted here yet again is the piecemeal way in which things are disseminated …
The cause of this was HQAC’s lack of desire …
HQAC haven’t got their heads around disseminating things properly …
Whoever makes these changes is only doing so to justify job and or salary …[/quote]
Yawn
HQAC have no control over AP818 nor over current drill practices in the RAF.
God knows they have their faults but we can’t blame them for everything.
I know wdi, the yawn was directed at the same old comments from the same old individual!
They may not have control but that surely doesn’t prevent them ensuring that changes are disseminated promptly so that everyone knows about it, rather than an email merry-go-round. If it was something being stopped we’d know PDQ wth stop emails being pinged all over the place.
Given that drill seems to be the most important thing we do, any changes you would have thought would go through the Corps like a dose of salts. Or is it that drill is only important to those “making a living from it” and there aren’t actually any changes to tell us about. MattB is right the only real change I can recall in nigh on 40 years that was promulgated properly was dumbing down from attention to shun, as we had to write (remember that) the ammendment in the book.
It might be a yawn envoking, but poor day to day communication in the ATC (not edicts and diktats they do them really well) down the COC has been an issue for years. If you want a well run organisation a good communication system is vital. Being volunteers this needs to managed well as we pick things up at our convenience, as opposed to what our employer expects.
Wondering how long it’ll take until I see a copy. Would of been nicer for more than 5 per wing