The RAF might have more reason to say with Low Vis slides as the Officers now actually have Low Vis versions. Although quite often they are more no-vis than low vis due to the coloration.
all the RAF people i saw in various theatres who were outside of large, much more regulated locations like Kandahar, Bastion, Shiaba Logs, Basra Airport etc… were either wearing no rank slides, or rankslides that matched, broadly, the uniform (desert/DPM/MTP) that they were wearing.
oddly, no one seemed wildly keen to put a blue aiming square in the middle of their chest…
as well as the obvious practicalites of the issue, it was remarked on by all who i had converstations with that a blue rank slide on DPM/MTP/Desert uniform looked utterly, utterly mince, and that it made the RAF look more than a little ‘un-war-like’, as well as suggesting that because the RAF had not corrected this very obvious error, their headshed was somewhat disengaged from the reality of opertions.
none of which inspire confidence…
blue is for smarts, green is for getting dirty.
So we’re all in agreement that I was right all along, then? 
deflates head
While I think blue slides on MTP looks silly for Airmen, I can sort of get behind cadets wearing them. It would make a pretty decent immediate ‘that is a cadet’ form of recognition, like CAP wearing full colour patches and insignia on their BDU.
i don’t see the pint of it being rank slides, given that there are lots of times when cadets could do with subdued RS in a cadet only environment where its obvious that they are cadets - the obvious solution to showing what formation the cadets belong to, and therefore marking them out as cadets, would be the same solution that everyone else has discovered: a TRF. of course, some ‘genius’ (can i say ‘brain damaged chimpanzee on crack’?) decided to create an ACO TRF that is so subdued that it can’t be seen from more thn 30ft away…
easy solution - subdued RS worn all the time when in ‘greens’, with a velcro-backed, easily distinguishable TRF based broadly on RAF colours, but made ‘cadetty’ by fiddling with the angles, or a device imposed on the RAF colours.
fr easier to have one TRF and one set of RS than one TRF thats utterly dreadful at doing whats designed for, and two types of RS- one for ‘public’ and one for a training area.
So, I’m still not really, fully getting this.
Why can’t cadets wear DPM stripes? Is it because HQAC says so? If so, why? I can’t really see the problem. On any green camp that goes on, as long as the CFAV are wearing blue RS what’s the problem? If the cadets want to wear them, fine. It would be coming out of their pockets after all, not HQAC’s.
Sorry guys, not particularly insightful but it’s like the ACO making up a rule, applying it, disseminating it and not really knowing why or what the point of it was???
[quote=“Racing Stick” post=10975]
Sorry guys, not particularly insightful but it’s like the ACO making up a rule, applying it, disseminating it and not really knowing why or what the point of it was???[/quote]
:lol: You’ll come across this more and more during your time with the ACO…
I’ve ended up adopting much of a “don’t care much” attitude when dealing with rank slides in the field. In most greens activities it doesn’t much matter that the cadet is wearing a blue rank slide (ranges, init exercises etc…) but fieldcraft is a bit of a different matter, where we are teaching C&C but then insisting cadets wear bright blue and silver. By and large I either turn a blind eye to rank slides, or remove them altogether. In this environment I’m not too bothered with adult staff wearing subdued slides, so they can practice what they preach and still be recognised by their rank.
I have in the past issued “exercise rank” which consists of a DPM rank slide with one sand bar for section 2IC and two bars for section IC. Then all we are bothered about is the people who are nominated command for the exercise / activity.
This is all much against the rules / dres regs, but it’s a rare exception that I make for common sense purposes and of course any such rank needs to be removed and replaced with regular type upon return to civilisation / mess hall / remainder of camp etc…
I like this idea, simple and effective.
[quote=“combatsniper” post=11058]
This is all much against the rules / dres regs, but it’s a rare exception that I make for common sense purposes and of course any such rank needs to be removed and replaced with regular type upon return to civilisation / mess hall / remainder of camp etc…[/quote]
The most sensible thing I’ve read yet on this forum.
But surely it begets the question: ‘why not just use DPM rank slides out on the area and revert to blue rank slides upon return to the camp’?
Two ‘sand’ bars = two gold-coloured chevrons on DPM? Both will be contrary to existing dress regs anyway.
Why the extra expense\embuggerment creating new rank slides when the alternatives already exist?
[quote=“Gunner” post=11111]But surely it begets the question: ‘why not just use DPM rank slides out on the area and revert to blue rank slides upon return to the camp’?[/quote]A much better solution and one I used to recommend before I got myself into a position whereby I couldn’t 
Another option is to just take the rank slides off completely when “in the field”.
Is a 2x2" square really going to make that much difference to C&C? Considering that if someone is concealing themselves from you, they are likely to be lying down, covering it up anyway…?
Hijacking slightly, but it’s on the same topic.
Just got back from a weekend at wing exercise. First big wing event I’ve been on where MTP has been on general wear. (Say 25-30% of people.)
The dress regs for MTP, (Which is a bit of a stretch of the word ‘reg’ seeing as none actually exist yet.) were being enforced to the nth degree, but only against those wearing MTP. As if it was some sort of punitive measure. What I got called up on, was my rank slides. (Whether it is fair to enforce the dress regulations against some people more than others is another issue, one I found a bit unfair.)
Being a Pilot Officer, I have always worn my braid with backing material the same colour as the uniform I wear. So I have wedgewood blue, jumper blue, GPJ blue, Goretex blue DPM and now, MTP backed braid. Despite having worn DPM backed slides since I commissioned, I have now been told that I have been doing this incorrectly and I should wear blue rank slides. (Which blue I asked?)
This gets my goat. Officers the rank of Flight Lieutenant and above can simply get away with wearing just their braid, composite braid sewn into a rank slide. Pilot and Flying Officers must back their braid so the braids don’t fall apart when you stick the pins through them. What I don’t get is why? If the senior officers only have to wear braid on MTP/DPM epaulettes, what on earth is the difference with junior officers wearing just the braid backed on little bits of material the same colour as the epaulette? Wearing the blue backed braid from the jumper doesn’t look the same, it looks awful. I thought there was something written, somewhere which backed that position but can’t for the life of me find it now.
[quote=“Baldrick” post=12673]Hijacking slightly, but it’s on the same topic.
Just got back from a weekend at wing exercise. First big wing event I’ve been on where MTP has been on general wear. (Say 25-30% of people.)
The dress regs for MTP, (Which is a bit of a stretch of the word ‘reg’ seeing as none actually exist yet.) were being enforced to the nth degree, but only against those wearing MTP. As if it was some sort of punitive measure. What I got called up on, was my rank slides. (Whether it is fair to enforce the dress regulations against some people more than others is another issue, one I found a bit unfair.)
Being a Pilot Officer, I have always worn my braid with backing material the same colour as the uniform I wear. So I have wedgewood blue, jumper blue, GPJ blue, Goretex blue DPM and now, MTP backed braid. Despite having worn DPM backed slides since I commissioned, I have now been told that I have been doing this incorrectly and I should wear blue rank slides. (Which blue I asked?)
This gets my goat. Officers the rank of Flight Lieutenant and above can simply get away with wearing just their braid, composite braid sewn into a rank slide. Pilot and Flying Officers must back their braid so the braids don’t fall apart when you stick the pins through them. What I don’t get is why? If the senior officers only have to wear braid on MTP/DPM epaulettes, what on earth is the difference with junior officers wearing just the braid backed on little bits of material the same colour as the epaulette? Wearing the blue backed braid from the jumper doesn’t look the same, it looks awful. I thought there was something written, somewhere which backed that position but can’t for the life of me find it now.[/quote]
Whoever told you this is wrong. Next time you see them you should look very disappointed and shake your head sadly in their direction.
[quote=“Baldrick” post=12673]Hijacking slightly, but it’s on the same topic.
Just got back from a weekend at wing exercise. First big wing event I’ve been on where MTP has been on general wear. (Say 25-30% of people.)
The dress regs for MTP, (Which is a bit of a stretch of the word ‘reg’ seeing as none actually exist yet.) were being enforced to the nth degree, but only against those wearing MTP. As if it was some sort of punitive measure. What I got called up on, was my rank slides. (Whether it is fair to enforce the dress regulations against some people more than others is another issue, one I found a bit unfair.)
Being a Pilot Officer, I have always worn my braid with backing material the same colour as the uniform I wear. So I have wedgewood blue, jumper blue, GPJ blue, Goretex blue DPM and now, MTP backed braid. Despite having worn DPM backed slides since I commissioned, I have now been told that I have been doing this incorrectly and I should wear blue rank slides. (Which blue I asked?)
This gets my goat. Officers the rank of Flight Lieutenant and above can simply get away with wearing just their braid, composite braid sewn into a rank slide. Pilot and Flying Officers must back their braid so the braids don’t fall apart when you stick the pins through them. What I don’t get is why? If the senior officers only have to wear braid on MTP/DPM epaulettes, what on earth is the difference with junior officers wearing just the braid backed on little bits of material the same colour as the epaulette? Wearing the blue backed braid from the jumper doesn’t look the same, it looks awful. I thought there was something written, somewhere which backed that position but can’t for the life of me find it now.[/quote]
This type of behaviour is what p1sses me off about this organization. This is taking ‘anal’ to the highest level possible.
HQAC - if you’re reading this - please get a grip of these morons and issue the updated dress regulations NOW! You’ve had enought time to do so.
Baldrick - out of interest, were the people taking you to task wearing MTP or CS95?
They are wrong:
- POSITIONING OF OFFICER RANK BADGES
Jacket Sleeves, No 1 SD.
All officers wear rings of black and blue ranking braid as appropriate to their rank, the centre of the braid being 9.5 cm (3 ¾”) from the bottom of the cuff.
Shoulder slides for the No 2, 6 and 7 SD and Outerwear.
The bottom row of composite braid should be at the base of the strap, for Plt Off and Fg Off the braid should be mounted centrally on a backing material
matching the host garment. All must incorporate the Gilt VRT Insignia.
All Officers within the ACO, who have not completed their OIC at ATF RAF Cranwell, must wear white rank slides with VRT insignia when in
uniform, prior to attending ATF. There are no exemptions.
Rank Slides for (No 3 SD) CS 95.
Appropriate rank slides incorporating the Gilt VRT Insignia are to be worn on the “front rank epaulette” of the CS 95 jacket and shirts.
Key quote “matching the host garment” so this is dark blue for jumpers, gpj, wedgewood blue for shirts and either DPM or MTP for No3.
[quote=“tango_lima” post=12674][quote=“Baldrick” post=12673]Hijacking slightly, but it’s on the same topic.
Just got back from a weekend at wing exercise. First big wing event I’ve been on where MTP has been on general wear. (Say 25-30% of people.)
The dress regs for MTP, (Which is a bit of a stretch of the word ‘reg’ seeing as none actually exist yet.) were being enforced to the nth degree, but only against those wearing MTP. As if it was some sort of punitive measure. What I got called up on, was my rank slides. (Whether it is fair to enforce the dress regulations against some people more than others is another issue, one I found a bit unfair.)
Being a Pilot Officer, I have always worn my braid with backing material the same colour as the uniform I wear. So I have wedgewood blue, jumper blue, GPJ blue, Goretex blue DPM and now, MTP backed braid. Despite having worn DPM backed slides since I commissioned, I have now been told that I have been doing this incorrectly and I should wear blue rank slides. (Which blue I asked?)
This gets my goat. Officers the rank of Flight Lieutenant and above can simply get away with wearing just their braid, composite braid sewn into a rank slide. Pilot and Flying Officers must back their braid so the braids don’t fall apart when you stick the pins through them. What I don’t get is why? If the senior officers only have to wear braid on MTP/DPM epaulettes, what on earth is the difference with junior officers wearing just the braid backed on little bits of material the same colour as the epaulette? Wearing the blue backed braid from the jumper doesn’t look the same, it looks awful. I thought there was something written, somewhere which backed that position but can’t for the life of me find it now.[/quote]
Whoever told you this is wrong. Next time you see them you should look very disappointed and shake your head sadly in their direction.[/quote]
Try running that argument against 3 warrant officers as a Pilot Officer. What I need is documentation.
The problem is the issue is open to interpretation. The relevant line is:
[para 0221] c. DPM Lightweight Combat Suit (L/W Jacket & Trousers). No shoulder epaulettes, blue rank slides only are worn on the front rank epaulette.
As far as I, and nearly every other pilot and flying officer there was concerned this means we must wear the standard issue blue braid. Backed onto appropriately coloured material. (In fact, backing material could be considered optional as all I was issued was 1 metre of braid.) So if I just wore braid, with no backing that would be a blue rank slide.
[quote=“arl” post=12677]They are wrong:
- POSITIONING OF OFFICER RANK BADGES
Jacket Sleeves, No 1 SD.
All officers wear rings of black and blue ranking braid as appropriate to their rank, the centre of the braid being 9.5 cm (3 ¾”) from the bottom of the cuff.
Shoulder slides for the No 2, 6 and 7 SD and Outerwear.
The bottom row of composite braid should be at the base of the strap, for Plt Off and Fg Off the braid should be mounted centrally on a backing material
matching the host garment. All must incorporate the Gilt VRT Insignia.
All Officers within the ACO, who have not completed their OIC at ATF RAF Cranwell, must wear white rank slides with VRT insignia when in
uniform, prior to attending ATF. There are no exemptions.
Rank Slides for (No 3 SD) CS 95.
Appropriate rank slides incorporating the Gilt VRT Insignia are to be worn on the “front rank epaulette” of the CS 95 jacket and shirts.
Key quote “matching the host garment” so this is dark blue for jumpers, gpj, wedgewood blue for shirts and either DPM or MTP for No3.[/quote]
Thanks, but where are you taking that from?
[quote=“Gunner” post=12676][quote=“Baldrick” post=12673]Hijacking slightly, but it’s on the same topic.
Just got back from a weekend at wing exercise. First big wing event I’ve been on where MTP has been on general wear. (Say 25-30% of people.)
The dress regs for MTP, (Which is a bit of a stretch of the word ‘reg’ seeing as none actually exist yet.) were being enforced to the nth degree, but only against those wearing MTP. As if it was some sort of punitive measure. What I got called up on, was my rank slides. (Whether it is fair to enforce the dress regulations against some people more than others is another issue, one I found a bit unfair.)
Being a Pilot Officer, I have always worn my braid with backing material the same colour as the uniform I wear. So I have wedgewood blue, jumper blue, GPJ blue, Goretex blue DPM and now, MTP backed braid. Despite having worn DPM backed slides since I commissioned, I have now been told that I have been doing this incorrectly and I should wear blue rank slides. (Which blue I asked?)
This gets my goat. Officers the rank of Flight Lieutenant and above can simply get away with wearing just their braid, composite braid sewn into a rank slide. Pilot and Flying Officers must back their braid so the braids don’t fall apart when you stick the pins through them. What I don’t get is why? If the senior officers only have to wear braid on MTP/DPM epaulettes, what on earth is the difference with junior officers wearing just the braid backed on little bits of material the same colour as the epaulette? Wearing the blue backed braid from the jumper doesn’t look the same, it looks awful. I thought there was something written, somewhere which backed that position but can’t for the life of me find it now.[/quote]
This type of behaviour is what p1sses me off about this organization. This is taking ‘anal’ to the highest level possible.
HQAC - if you’re reading this - please get a grip of these morons and issue the updated dress regulations NOW! You’ve had enought time to do so.
Baldrick - out of interest, were the people taking you to task wearing MTP or CS95?[/quote]
CS95. What was also being really clamped down on was TRFs. If you weren’t wearing one on a blanking panel you got told off, however, those without them on CS95 weren’t.
(Also, as far as I was aware, the Flying Officer with MTP slides with black VRT embroidered on them was free to go! Now that’s just plain wrong!)
[quote=“Baldrick” post=12679]
Thanks, but where are you taking that from?[/quote]
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