I dont know of anyone that has… but there must be some somewhere.
I dont want to sound big headed but if they can teach me something I dont already know I will eat my shoe lets face it I didnt just do the coures I did the job for 3 years solid at RTS so thats pretty much teaching drill day in day out.
You should definitely go on the ATF course. I look forward to your analysis of their training 
Actually, I’d be interested to see that analysis as well!
As I say, I’m told that the course standard has been raised since I did mine and I think FS ATF has the right mindset for us.
In general though, I firmly believe that aside from the SAAI course, the ACO set the standards for courses (and also for promotions) far too low. Better to turn out half the number of good instructors than twice the number of half-arsed ones.
Instead of debating this ad nauseam, have you tried emailing TG4 and asking him?
Or emailing the comdt as every other person seems to do when they don’t get the answer they want 
But at least TG4 could both give the right answer straight from the presses, and if the answer is a negative, explain why the course is absolutely necessary.
They read this site at ATF, they get annoyed by the fact that we often moan and moan about our problems but no request ever reaches their desks officially.
Since AP1358C came out, despite many moanings and queries, only one comment has reached ATF which not only highlighted a problem, but suggested a solution to the problem. One. And that was taken up in v.1.04.
Sigh… [quote=“Baldrick” post=16044]They read this site at ATF, they get annoyed by the fact that we often moan and moan about our problems but no request ever reaches their desks officially.
Since AP1358C came out, despite many moanings and queries, only one comment has reached ATF which not only highlighted a problem, but suggested a solution to the problem. One. And that was taken up in v.1.04.[/quote]
They can read it all they like. And people do pass things up the CoC. The CoC then does one of the following:
[ul]
[li]Sits on it until forgotten about[/li]
[li]Sits on it in the hope the situation resolves itself[/li]
[li]Ignores it[/li]
[li]Pass it back down with a “stop being a dullard” note[/li]
[li]Pass it back down with a “stop bothering us with such drivel” note[/li]
[li]Pass it back down with a “I’m sorry, I don’t understand” note[/li]
[li]Pass it back down with a “it’s already been flagged” note[/li]
[li]Pass it back down with a “it’s not my job - liaise directly with X/Y/Z”[/li]
[li]Denies it was ever passed to them[/li]
[li]“HQAC have taken a staffing reduction so I’ll send it - but don’t expect a response”[/li]
[li]Forwards it on to the relevant WSO/RSO who does one of the above[/li]
[li]Forwards it to WHQ/RHQ who do one of the above[/li]
[/ul]
I’d love to say I was exaggerating. I’ve done it myself on a number of occasions from a wider ACO perspective including suggesting things which, the ACC consensus was, would help things move forward (the use of proper version control in SharePoint, the publishing of amendments lists via CROs, very early on SMS changes (way before HelpDesk), very early syllabus change information etc). One of the above happened on each/every one of them.
And it’s not just me either - it’s been a number of different people across a number of different wings & regions who’ve had similar issues.
As much as I’d love to think things are different in the ATC NCO community - I also know that the same things occur - Sqn WO attends Wing NCO conference, makes suggestions to NCO community, community agrees, WWO takes it to RWO at RWO Conference… and who actually knows where some of the ideas/questions/queries went after that. No feedback is ever received and nothing ever changes. So who didn’t pass the message on? WWO? RWO? Or is it just that the feedback loop is broken???
Why do they need an official request to sort something out?
If a problem is identified it doesn’t matter how, just be pro-active and sort it out.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
I just can’t understand how so many of us who have course qualifications can bring them across and they be certified as good enough for the ACO, but yet another course can not???
The AADIC at Pirbright is one of the most complex courses I have ever done. The Advanced is even more so. How can a one week course which, in itself, is a shortened course of a shortened course be of any use to the likes of myself an Zinggy?
I would just like an answer.
I cannot help but feel that this all seems rather silly and petty. And that’s a real shame. Looking at it in another way, why not make the SSDIC longer then? That would make it more acceptable and make it more worthwhile. But that would mean a lot of logistical and administrative problems. Who could take leave for three weeks??!!
So they de-value the whole idea of the course by making it only a week which, with what I can gather from the comments above, covers lessons, technique and accoutrements that “does not maketh a drill instructor”.
[quote=“Racing Stick” post=16062]I just can’t understand how so many of us who have course qualifications can bring them across and they be certified as good enough for the ACO, but yet another course can not???
The AADIC at Pirbright is one of the most complex courses I have ever done. The Advanced is even more so. How can a one week course which, in itself, is a shortened course of a shortened course be of any use to the likes of myself an Zinggy?
I would just like an answer.
I cannot help but feel that this all seems rather silly and petty. And that’s a real shame. Looking at it in another way, why not make the SSDIC longer then? That would make it more acceptable and make it more worthwhile. But that would mean a lot of logistical and administrative problems. Who could take leave for three weeks??!!
So they de-value the whole idea of the course by making it only a week which, with what I can gather from the comments above, covers lessons, technique and accoutrements that “does not maketh a drill instructor”.[/quote]
When did you do your SSIC? Was it pre-AP818?
I ask as it just seems that the only way your qualification would not be recognised would have been back when ACP19 was around. Otherwise I agree it’s a waste of time.
Have you thought about writing a letter to ATF asking them?
Hi Guys, I did my SSIC last year after 818 came in.
My old OC, my new OC and my WWO have all spoken personally to ATF and they just will not budge.
Although I am extremely frustrated by it, I feel more for Zinggy who at the end of the day was RAF Regiment and actually would have done the same course the staff at ATF will have had to do.
Ultimately, it’s a very sad and very silly situation.
Please don’t get me wrong, I am not advocating giving a pace stick to every SNCO. Indeed, I’m suggesting the absolute opposite. But if anyone out there can tell me how financially, morally, instructionally (sic.) people like Zinggy and I could benefit from this then please let me know.
I don’t mind saying, if this wasn’t a discipline that I have lived most of my career doing, instructing, then instructing instructors on, I wouldn’t really care.
I think it’s insulting.
Worse: I’d say it was ridiculous and unacceptable. I’ll consider escalating this, though all I have is second-hand information.
Absolutely.
Who is it at ATF that they have spoken to? OC ATF or WO ATF? They also have the option of discussing the issue direct with Wg Cdr TG if they feel - as the majority of us on here do - that the current situation is simply not acceptable.
I fail to see the logic underpinning ATF’s decision. I would love to know what their reasoning behind their insistence on attendance, actually is.
ATF - we’re all ears…
If precedent helps, we do not require staff to retake the drill course in the ACF. We don’t actually have our own course, we just send staff on the Army Reserve course.
Well now you’ve gone and done it…
In fairness, Racing Stick, I can actually see why they’d want you to do the course, since, from their perspective, you were an Army DI and it would be a bit of a conversion to 818/RAF drill, or at least a chance to make sure you weren’t charging around doing things the Army way.
As for zinggy, he already holds the Q. I don’t see how it could expire or anything.
Army Drill ??? I thought we where all doing the same drill except those who are light infantry, oh and of course the navy who like to shuffle along at ther own pace.
And Judging by the picture on RS Avatur im guessing he did wear one of those Red Tunics which means in theory he knew enough drill not to have even done the course.
I do find this a bit strange. I can see no logical reason to make someone do a cut down version of a course thyey’ve already done the full version in, unless having viewed you they felt you weren’t up to scratch?
Umm…no?
Otherwise it would be JSP818, ne c’est pas?