syplan, there are huge vested interests, not least the BBC, spinning for the remain camp because a whole lot of the funding is being provided by the EU, basically using our money against us.
The film which I posted a link to earlier by contrast was crowd funded by people concerned enough to donate a few quid of their own money in an attempt to provide a little balance.
We will have to live the rest of our lives with the decision that we are about to make. Please,I urge you to spare 15 minutes to at least to watch the first part of Britex the Movie.
Even as a long time eurosceptic I was shocked to see the scale of the gold plated troughs that the layers of eurocrats have created for themselves. They make our own expenses fiddling MPs look like complete amateurs, plus it’s pretty much a job for life. No way will they give that up willingly.
If after watching the movie you still feel that you would be better off attempting to “fight the nonsense from within”, then you are certainly a more optimistic chap than I am.
Never discuss religion or politics with friends they say, but I make no apology for sticking my oar in here. This really is the most serious decision we will ever take. Please all look at the movie, and if you think it is rubbish then OK, but go an take a look. Brexit the Movie
Something you should look up is the College of Europe…it make an interesting read on why it was put in place but more importantly
how you get chosen to go
who have all passed out from it
Makes you definitely wonder are we being blindly led into a superstate by the “elite”
Something that totally annoys me is this political elite…
Idiots that haven’t done a real days work, no idea what they are talking about and have no real interest other than their own
I stared out remain but now I’m edging more and more to leave.
While I can see the uncertainty the remain lot talk about if we leave, I am not nor been convinced that we have or will have enough of a voice or influence to make staying in work to our benefit, sod the others what is good for us is most important. I don’t think an argument of trying scare people into voting ‘stay’ with visions of doom and gloom is a good policy, if they could say in positive language what the actual benefits of staying in are to the general public “man on the street”, not just minority groups.
But then if we do leave from some of the things I’ve read we will still be subjected to laws, taxes and ways of doing things that we have absolutely no influence / control over.
What I am least comfortable about is the increasing federalism which if the EU is going to succeed as it gets bigger, is going to have to happen and national govts reduced to little more than local councils in terms of the power they have. Increasing federalism will mean us as a nation paying in more and at some point this will not be balanced by what comes back. I don’t understand why we have to pay money in to run the eu and then see it passed to other countries. If we have to pay anything it should be an amount based on the audited costs of running the eu and be split evenly across all countries and scrap the handouts etc. If a country wants to build something or subsidise things, they should do it via their own tax systems only.
I’ve never understood why the Common Market / EEC / EC / EU had to move away from just being a single internal trading market, but allowing members to strike trade deals with with countries outside the ‘Common Market’. WRT the ‘EU govt’ these people are largely in grace and favour toady jobs and are unelected and if we don’t like what they are suggesting, we can’t vote them out. Even if we could the EU govt seems to be a complete nonsense of disparate political groupings, with their own agendas which need to be met, rather than a straightforward right wing / left wing and middle of the road. We may have a veto but how strong or long standing that is, is debatable. If I’m correct the French can veto anything relating to farming handouts because of the effect on French farmers because of its importance to their economy, yet Britain can’t have yet a veto on financial matters.
I quite liked Boris’ analogy a few weeks ago with respect to the historic attempts to have a ‘unified Europe’ which were totally reliant on martial law, which didn’t work and now the MO is through governmental / legal processes.
When I joined the military in 1965 I was told that one subject that should be avoided was politics. I do not believe that this website is an appropriate place to discuss such subjects but should remain relevant.
Current Affairs can form a large part of the Commissioning Board. Certainly as a unit we like to get our NCO courses discussing current affairs in sydicates.
I agree with your policy, but don’t believe there is a place on this website. Personally, I am sick and tired of all the dialogue. Discussion at Squadron level is a good idea but have you looked at Facebook lately? Roll on 24th June, in or out perhaps we can get some peace.
Whatever the outcome 24th June is when it will begin, this has only been the amuse bouche. I bumped into our local MP at the weekend and they said they are dreading the immediate months afterwards regardless of outcome.
The outcome will affect everyone and to not discuss or speak about it is doing the proverbial ostrich. It’s good to have current affairs on here as it shows we are multi-dimensional. The armed forces will be affected as much as anyone.
Maybe not but it doesn’t endear you to the EU when you consider that our money gets put into the pot and given to things all over Europe, which is the bit that galls me. The money they give back in grants etc could be taken off the initial annual sub and only give them what they need to fund EU worker’s lifestyles. When you look at some things that article you may as well put it into a bin and set fire to it or said someone else could be giving you the money, especially redevelopment/refurbishment.
When I see things like this I find myself thinking of a Monty Python sketch.
Who’s to say that they couldn’t have got the money via the UK govt for things?
I don’t know but everyone bands how much money is given and how much we get in grants but NOBODY has put a real figure on these.
If it was good or bad we would hear about it but the fact nobody really knows is what is worrying me.
Honest opinion on this monetary debate…the uk pulls out and the European Union crumbles. Not because the eu needs the uk but people may start taking an active interest in the accounts. The EU has not had its books audited in how long?? It wastes money through the pointless moves between Brussels and Strasbourg, it gives hand outs to all everyone is giving money to the EU but how much is being put in and how much taken out??
I don’t think it can balance the books and it’s been heavily reliant on the uk, Germany and France in the funding of it.
I don’t think you can put an actual figure on what comes back in grants as it seems to be a massive amount for infrastructure and money handed out to communities when a country first joins to (IMO) make the EU look wonderful and then tapers off after that.
I agree, I think we will only know what we put in as we write the cheque.
The EU I think doesn’t know where it puts the money or how much it has just that it can spend it it my gut feeling is eventually we will find the EU is in the red and bankrupt but they don’t know by how many billions
Well we have spoken and David Cameron has stood down in principle as PM.
All that I hope is we can lose Farage and his bunch of idiots from the political scene.
All we need to do is wait for the plagues and pestilence that the leave campaigners promised us if we voted to leave. I’ve been checking since I saw the news when I woke up this morning and as yet I’ve not found any boils or pustules.
I heard Salmond rambling on about another independence vote for Scotland and Scotland being in the EU, but I would imagine Scotland will be behind Turkey, Albania, Macedonia etc in the queue to join.
I don’t really fear another Scottish Independance vote. Scotland’s big problem with staying in the EU is the same as it was at the last referendum, you can’t just declare independence and stay a member and Spain have made it very clear that they would oppose Scotland joining at every turn so as to not encourage the Basques.
The other major problem for the SNP is that a large chunk of the financial policy they dreamed up last time, namely Oil revenues has been exposed as a lie (They claimed it would be worth between £15.8Billion & £38.7Billion over the 5 year period following Scottish Independance, even the SNP now concede it’s only worth £2.4Billion over the 5 year period and the OBR state it is actually only likely be worth £500Million)
We might be the first but we won’t be the last, France has been badgering for a referendum for a while and the recent terror attacks has reinforced this. (A lot of people want an end to free movement). Holland, Finland & Denmark are very Eurosceptic. Austria came with a few percent of an extreme right wing president, translate that to their next legislative elections and you have a huge swing. The EU us dying, we are just the first rat off the sinking ship.
I just can’t, for the life of me, understand why there are those who want to stay on board the Titanic. AFAIC, we’ve just managed to get into a lifeboat and are waiting for it to be lowered.
The first-class passengers (the EU elites) are simply rearranging the deck chairs whilst a large number of second and third-class passengers (the citizens of France, Holland et al) have seen us in the lifeboat and have started looking for their own. The first-class passengers refuse to acknowledge that the ship is sinking and are trying to persuade the other passengers. The trouble is, the other passengers have seen the damage…
[for clarity, the class of passengers do not allude to my opinions of the citizens of France and Holland and are simply to illustrate the analogy ]
I’ve been smirking about the reaction of “Brussels glitterati”, they really are having a dummy spit at the thought of having to find someone else to be the fall guy (Greece??) for everything and having to pay more club fees.
However, it would seem that the “leave” vote didn’t really have a clear “after action” plan to pre-empt the myriad of negative effects that have popped out of the woodwork. By all means have a referendum, but there should have been a level of “protection” to ensure that Damocles’ sword only fell after the buffer had been met. Already the “promises” are starting to tumble - Farage & his NHS money for example. And even worse, it seems like the Labour Party could have the chance to elect a better leader, the last thing that the Conservatives wanted! I also have the suspicion that Boris might have had more in his sights than winning the leave campaign…
It has certainly hit my wife’s work shares - 50% drop!!! Hopefully they will slowly crawl back as they are part of her (our!) long term financial plan.
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Hopefully they will slowly crawl back as they are part of her (our!) long term financial plan.