[quote=“juliet mike” post=18101]The ACF, as far as I know, have to be current first aiders,
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You are correct. All our staff* are expected to have a full first aid certificate to at least Activity First Aid standard. New staff do an EFAW or BFA course as part of the induction process and are then expected to go on an AFA or FAW course as soon as possible.
*Doctors, nurses and paramedics are exempt.
All staff is overkill. At work with 20 people we have 3 FAW, 1 chap is leaving next month and isn’t being replaced. We are suggesting say 5/6 staff trained for 30-40 cadets with the potential for all cadets to be first aid trained as well. All of the arguments are laudable, but the training requirement will be huge. Most Wings must have 150-200 staff, with a max 12 per course that’s 13 - 17 courses per year per Wing, aside from anything else. This doesn’t take into account cadets.
One of the groups I’m part of hires in the SJA foe our events. The local leader came and saw us and said to the recent commercialisation a number of people have left and they are stuggling to get new people trained. I can see whoever in the cadet forces is part of the SJA funny handshake mob offering us up to help. If I wanted to first aid as a hobby I know where to go.
Why oh why oh why aren’t HQAC etc more concerned about getting people qualified / trained to deliver all of our core syllabus subjects. In all my years as a first aider at work, home and ATC i’ve only had to deal with a dozen incidents, the worst of which was my mate passing out at a perty and deciding to vomit while unconscious. At cadets nothing more than a cuts and a twisted ankle. We’d be fighting each other to have a go at the sqn.
1 staff member may be all that is on am activity or parade night, hence ALL is not overkill and less than ALL is surely against good duty of care practice.
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I saw a circular come round about 12mths ago, telling us that the ATC were distancing itself from SJA and FAAW and advising us go to ‘local providers’ if we wanted FAAW training.
In view of this, I doubt that there’ll be any ‘funny handshakes’ going in within the Corps with the exception of YFA which is a ACFAA venture and of which the Corps is a part.
PS: Just how many more bloody spam checks am I going to have to go through just to make one post? Isn’t it a bit of overkill especially as we all have to login anyway?
[quote=“juliet mike” post=18121]1 staff member may be all that is on am activity or parade night, hence ALL is not overkill and less than ALL is surely against good duty of care practice.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/quote]I don’t see anything wrong with just making it compulsory to have a first aider present. You still don’t need everyone in the Corps to be qual’d in order to do that.
No, but it will mean having increased number of staff. Say for example gliding. If you have 1 person driving, not first aid, and another non-driver who is first aid, you need both. As we have been told, most accidents happen on the way to activities.
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I have stopped FA requals as a young un I was in the St John and it seemed to be that everytime I requalled I would have to deal with a fatal or near fatal accident withng about 6 months, I lapsed for many years then took a course in the Corps about 5 years ago, within 6 months I dealt with a very bad bike accident… I havent renewed again…
If we actually properly assess the level of risk associated with a normal parade night at a squadron it is easy to conclude that we do not really need a formally qualified first aider on hand. We are low-risk environments and so long as someone can apply common sense and call for help if needed (ie, there is an adult on hand) we should not actually NEED anything more.
Of course, all of our more risky activities have more stringent FA requirements so are already already adequately covered. What is left is stuff like walking about, reading books, sitting on chairs, making tea etc. Standard household stuff.
Remember too that it will be an unusual squadron these days that does not have a cadet who has done either HeartStart or YFA. They are allowed to use those skills.
That doesn’t mean I don’t think it ids a good idea though: we would be better served if all of our staff had a basic level of FA knowledge and I do feel that First Aid is a true life skill and would advise everybody to learn some.
I’m not convinced that HeartStart is the right course for staff - if we want to assess it (which we should) and to have it expire after 3 years we should look at similar but separate basic emergency FA courses or even create our own. HeartStart is not our course to mess with. It should be deliverable by any AFA/FAW person such as YFA is at the moment so that it is easily deliverable in good time across the Corps (SJA trainers are not always readily available)
We already have a course for staff, called activity first aid.
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Activity First Aid is a 2-day course, rendering it less than ideal as mandatory FA qualification for all personnel. We ideally need something which can be delivered as part of BASIC for those who don’t already have better and something which can be “topped up” for everybody on a regular basis.
AFA is also only deliverable by SJA trainer/assessors and these are in short supply in some places. We are currently unable to provide sufficient courses for those personnel who already need a full FA qualification, so making that the mandatory course for all CFAVs is not going to be practicable.
[quote=“glass half empty 2” post=18120] Most Wings must have 150-200 staff, with a max 12 per course that’s 13 - 17 courses per year per Wing, aside from anything else.
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You can divide the number of courses by three, since you only need to requal once every three years. All you need to do is stagger the initial qualifications.
[quote=“397k” post=18084]I agree that First Aid is all the things that have been mentioned, it is a very useful skill for all.
My concern is being told that it is now compulsory for all staff but that no one can show me where it is written that this is now the case.
If it is, so be it.
If not, then it strikes me as local empire building[/quote]
I have heard of this, but I believe it was something that was being implemented by a specific region rather HQAC policy (They tried to make it policy but failed as only HQAC can issue policy). When the individual concerned told me about this they also said that they were also trying to insist that all RCOs have a minimum of AFA so there is always a first aid qualified person on the range. I did point out that to my knowledge the RCO has to appoint a medic who has to be someone other than the RCO.
Regarding a sqn point of view if you have all your cadets do YFA then you should have plenty to deal with any incident. The staff then just need to keep the first aiders calm and focused and help coordinate the incident as well as look after the rest of the cadets.
Also, what happens if someone fails or is unable to do the course (e.g. MS, artificial hand etc ) would they then have to leave the corps? If they were not then allowed to supervise cadets then you are effectively making them second class staff and forcing the volunteer out by neglect anyway.
agreed!!
we have 1 every 4 months, but it doesn’t take much for accommodation to be cancelled or “operation requirements” to put the kibosh on the weekend.
our next one is a September and last was February so not even three times a year this time round…
Personally, I can’t see why anyone wouldn’t want to be first aid trained,and should a situation occur be in a position to provide assistance. As an organisation, I think we should be striving to achieve a high percentage of trained staff, but need to remain concious of the fact we are the Air Training Corps, and not the First Aid Training Corps.
There are many other activities on offer and training staff should not detract from what we offer the cadets. While some activities require FA trained staff notably AT & Shooting, other activities do not, and all CFAVs should be able to stick a plaster on. So long as we retain a pool of staff who are FA trained, and this is sufficient at a local level to support activities then there is no problem. Only when activities can not be supported would the level of Staff FA Trained become an issue.
Well, looks like we went for the soft option of not using a real first aid qualification, we have gone for a non-assessed attendance course.
Btw, a cadet or CFAV is just as likely to suffer a stroke, heart attack, fit, fainting, allergic reaction etc in a classroom or on parade as they are on AT or Shooting. I don’t think a plaster quite “covers” all eventualities.
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Another great idea from the good idea fairies.
I was about to ask whether the ACO would fund staff or organise their own courses for more advanced first aid techniques. But I think this has answered my question.
Do these people not realise how important this sort of stuff is? And how it needs to be maintained?
Idiots.
IMHO, ALL CFAV’s should hold First Aid at Work or at the VERY least, EFAW as this course is still assessed and examined. Being reliant upon the ‘oh, someone in the group will be first-aid trained’ or having to hunt round\persuade\cajole a trained member of staff to attend an activity, just isn’t good enough.
I saw a draft policy document issued by TG1 a couple of years ago upon which I was invited to comment. The document stated that first aid training for all ACO staff would become compulsory in 2017. It would appear from the comments on here that it’s been swept under the carpet and each Rgn\Wg is deciding it’s own policy?
IMHO, each WFAI(T) should be exactly that - a first aid trainer. All it takes is PTLLS, a current FAAW and 3 yrs experience in being a first-aider. There’s no reason why each Wg can’t obtain centre approval from organisations such as Qualsafe and run their own courses.
I thought what you suggest isn’t good enough is one of the precepts for sectorisation, ie we can’t all have staff trained/qualified in everything so we share.
Or is it that first aid is easier and cheaper than say AT and weapons training and rather than have to broach the difficult areas, the decision has been take the easier road? I would sooner see our Lords and Ladies tackling the more difficult qualification/training areas.
It’s a fine sentiment to have all staff with a first aid ticket and make it compulsory, but in order to deliver the breadth of training, we need people with the less easy qualifications/training. The implication is that we have loads and loads of injuries/incidents to deal with. But in my 30 years as staff the worst injury I have had to deal with in the ATC is a broken arm in a football match and as the lad’s dad was there, there were no dramas.
One of my staff is useless around blood and trauma, his wife has said she spends more time dealing with him when their children get injured, as he normally ends up on the floor or feeling queasy. Suggesting going a first aid course is compulsory would not be a positive.
EFAW is a 1 day course. If you train 200 staff and only 1 of them save a life, I would say it is worth it.
It really isn’t about TRAINING cadets in first aid, it is about being able to administer first aid if required. It shouldn’t be seen as a training qualification, more of a qualification along the lines of BASIC.
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