Changes to over 18s - New IBN for WEF 2024

Adult Staff Execs
161

There are all sorts of reasons why it’s a good idea: personal development, safeguarding, to counter issues with familiarity, mentoring, etc.

It’s just that policy and the CoC need fo recognise that isn’t always practicable and can easily damage retention.

When I new ‘adult instructor’ (the term CFAV wasn’t common at the time, if it existed at all) with the ACF, I was attending one large well established detachment under the mentorship of an experienced (and very enthusiastic) officer, one struggling detachment where me and other new AIs were making up the numbers to keep it viable, and another tiny detachment that I was told I would soon be commanding. Fortunately, I was a student at the time and so attending cadets for four nights a week (the large one met twice) helped save my money and liver.

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162

I’ve spoken here before about the value of people moving around within the org - both geographically and in Sqn/Wing/Reg roles - I think it should be encouraged because it’s spreads out quality and diluted toxicity.

However, my Sqn has three ‘neighbouring’ Sqn’s. The two closes are 40 minutes drive, the next 50 minutes.

Anyone want to take a punt on what public transport looks like out here? Anyone want to take a punt on how many of our 18yo’s - most of whom either have a car, or ride a motorbike - will actually make the jump?

It’s that disconnect thing again.

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163

How many can afford it, have insurance restrictions on what they can and cannot actually do in terms of times of travel etc?

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164

There are no rules, however we don’t recommend someone is a cadet one day and a CFAV the next at the same unit.

165

The wording should be:

“All transitioning cadets will be encouraged to consider the benefits of either staying at their current unit or spending some time at another unit, the pro/con balance of which may be drastically different from one cadet to another, both for personal reasons or those of geography.

“Ultimately, the decision of where they volunteer remains theirs alone, as it is for all our volunteers”

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166

Anyone have any experience of how the Scouts do it?

they have Scouts up to the age of 18…and I would guess a keen, enthusiastic and experienced 18 year would not be turned away from being a leader.

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167

Generally, Explorer scouts are separate to younger groups anyway.
That said, I was a cub and scout at the same unit from 8-14, then a Young Leader at the same unit whilst I was an Explorer somewhere else until I was 18, when I became a full leader at the same unit again.
The only caveat was that, when I was 15-16, the leaders didn’t want me to be too involved (ie, permanently with) with the scout section I’d just aged out of, although I still helped run some activities in line with my specific interests and skills. I don’t know if that was a local thing or more widespread - it was far from a ban, though, and I’m pretty sure if the only time I was available was when the scout section met, that wouldn’t have meant I couldn’t do it, just that I’d need to be extra careful (as would the scout leaders)

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168

Generally, in my area, Young Leaders were encouraged to help with a different section (eg Cubs) or at a different group after finishing Scouts. But no hard and fast rule.

But there was nothing to stop an 18 year old becoming a leader in the same group or indeed helping at the Explorer section they’d just left. It was down to the judgment of the section leader and the group scout leader, who’d be the one held accountable.

FWIW the leader training can be quite slow, often over a year or more, although those who’ve been Young Leaders could skip some of the modules or get recognition of prior learning.

So though there will be exceptions it would be rare to see a fully qualified “Wood Badge” holding leader who wasn’t in their 20s.

Another factor is that Scouts have university groups that support local scout groups with additional leaders, so it is pretty straightforward to continue in Scouting and gain experience in another part of the country during term.

169

but what about the group they just left - what is an 18 year old expected to do when interacting with a group of Scouts aged 17 (ie their same school year group)

this is interesting and proves a point.

the RAFAC follows an RAF ethos, and as in the RAF “moving around” is common place (often 3 year posting) those in the Ivory Towers who have prior RAF experience see nothing odd about the concept of personnel moving around, thus the suggestion CFAVs completing a “tour” in the next town along, as for them they have spent 15+ years doing exactly that - but this is another example where the fulltime RAF lifestyle and expectations does not translate to the civilian world of a CFAV.

CFAV do not move to another office or department in our paid employment every three years, and while some may transition between jobs on a regular basis, that is perhaps due to their industry, where people don’t stick around for years at a time (in addition to HR, another department seems to have poor retention at our work, rarely does someone stay longer than 4 years). While i have been on 8 different Squadrons in my time, 4 of these are due to me moving around the country through gap year/uni/post uni and now final “home”. the others are me volunteering to move either to help others out or to help myself out (not wanting to say there any longer!)

so i think this is a case where HQAC forget we are volunteers, and 98% of us volunteer in our local community, with the idea of moving outside of that catchment is foreign - this is shown by the Scouts, who run a similar volunteer led youth group model

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170

Although you’ve only picked a part - the sentence above says they were encouraged to not be at the same section.

171

agreed - but an encouragement is not a formal policy forcing 18 year olds to travel to the next town

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172

Or take 6 months off.

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173

Also scouts are much more local, but explorers are a ‘district’ (read sector or even wing level) provision. So an explorer scout might well have already moved at 13/14.

Given how many groups they have, travel is less of an issue though.

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174

this is true.
i can’t say i am up to speed in my current town, but when i grew up the town had three distinct separate Scout troops and so not as much effort to cycle the 20 minutes to get across town to one of the other two if needed versus a 8 mile each way drive each-way along unlit B-roads

175

Reading back through the media team’s responses to our first all staff call where this policy was discussed, this was what was briefed on the follow up:

We are aware that there has been significant interest in the progress of the over 18 cadet policy changes being implemented later this year, with many questions raised at the December 2023 all-staff dial-in seeking clarity. As a result, we want to outline the challenges involved, the intent of the work being done, and the timelines for further information being released and for the policy to be shared and implemented to help address some of the concerns being raised.

The purpose behind the policy revision is to address several inequities that are currently in place, namely:

Staff Cadets are in part treated as de facto CFAV, historically, to ameliorate delivery risk in units with a shortage of adult volunteers. However, the lowest cadet-to-CFAV ratio is in the CCF (RAF), where Staff Cadets are unavailable.

The selective process for Staff Cadets is based on the perceived ability of the cadet to fulfil instructional duties, which may disadvantage cadets with additional education needs or disabilities.

Some Staff Cadets believe they are fulfilling CFAV roles and therefore have an expectation of entitlement to refund of travel costs when on duty; this is particularly true of Flight Staff Cadets.

A new joining CFAV would not be expected to bring a particular qualification or skill to RAFAC, yet the Staff Cadet appointment process requires existing cadets to do so, ranging from very specific and difficult-to-obtain qualifications (such as Flying Scholarship) to the very vague (such as information technology). If the bar is so variable and ill-defined, the value of insisting on a skills requirement is questionable.

The claim made by cadets as to the ‘postcode lottery’ of how they are used in Staff Cadet roles is equally applicable to Cadet Warrant Officer positions.

Training completed as a Staff Cadet does not automatically migrate for those who become CFAV, often attracting the need for repeated training.

The Adult Volunteer Induction Programme (AVIP) replicates in part studies already undertaken as part of a cadet’s journey through the classification system, again duplicating the training effort.

Finding a resolution to these concerns, while also trying to minimise unforeseen problems arising from changes and reducing unintended second-order effects, will naturally take some time. We want to ensure this is done correctly to reduce confusion and problems arising in the future post-implementation. The hope is that policy changes can be designed, tried and tested and then introduced pan RAFAC, which ensures that equal levels of opportunity are offered to all cadets reaching the age of 18 and that such cadets have sufficient knowledge of the options available to them to make an informed decision.

The timeline for the implementation of the policy changes are as follows:

The Air Cadet Strategy Board will be presented with the progress update on February 19 2024, with a view to ensuring that milestones are being met and that the appropriate oversight is in place.

The final policy document will be shared in the summer before school holidays to allow CFAVs and Cadets a chance to see how the changes will affect them and to prepare for implementation, which will take place in September after the school holidays and busy summer RAFAC events season.

How many of those points have been achieved with this?

176

Depending on the circumstances of the cadet it is very rare that you get above 80% attendance rate when they reach 18 (there are some exceptions) but in general especially if they go down the uni route they almost “block the system” if we are talking ACP 20 and requirements of NCO’s vs ratios. Personally I like the ACF idea portrayed of Probationary Instructor. Drop the age of CWO to 16 and start a year earlier from Year 7 (11 going on 12) end aged 18 with 1 option of PI for 2 years till 20. It would be interesting to know the national average attendance for staff cadets to make those informed choices too

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177

What I’ve always struggled with in this debate regarding over 18 cadets over the many years is why there is the fixation on age on whether someone is suitable or not.

18 is the legal threshold so that’s a fixed line in the sand.

Beyond that we really should be shouldn’t be making assumptions on maturity based on age.

Otherwise this is age discrimination. Some 18 year olds are highly competent more so than a lot of adults. others are as thick as railway sleepers despite being very keen.

Regardless both sets should be treated equally and assessed on their own individual skills abilities & mindset rather than assume that because of the age (a protected characteristic) that an individual lacks the maturity or experience.

We have a big push of Astra and updated the equality & diversity of the organisation but how can this be progressed if discrimination on the protected characteristics of age is accepted as one we can be bigoted about.

Let’s assessed the individual, have no pre-disposed assumptions & tailor the decision to the individual.

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178

I wonder whether the military’s right to discriminate based on age is a factor.

Edit: I’m suddenly doubting myself.

But the military doesn’t have to (and doesn’t) pay minimum wage either, so there are certainly laws that don’t apply.

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179

Don’t worry you are correct

However it wouldn’t apply to us as CFAVs are not bound by armed forces act or service regs.

It probably is a factor in the permeating mindset & cultures

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180

CFAVs, as volunteers, are also not bound by the equality act. So discrimination in a legal sense cannot exist. Obviously in a moral sense it still does.

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