What if the cadet is close to 20 but wants to go staff upon the change of policy, does that mean they’d have to swap squadrons and then swap back a few months later? What if they hold a supernumary position? Do they have to stop attending there too?
Why do we even bother.
Going back to when I turned 18 and was a cadet wanting to carry on until I left for uni just before turning 19, I didn’t have the resources to travel to a different unit (rural area, no public transport and didn’t have my own car), if I’d been told to go away for 6 months I wouldn’t have come back.
I was in exactly the same situation. If they didn’t want me as a volunteer at my closest unit then they wouldn’t have had me as a volunteer at all. Not sure the ATC can afford that at the moment with CFAV leaving en masse.
I did a survey of cadets 17/18 on my unit none have thier own transport most make there own way to unit, most said there parents would not be able to take them to another unit.
As for the revised over 18 policy multiple options, why not do what they did years ago when a CWO could stay in until 22 (option 1, if over 20, finish time as a CWO or transfer to staff, under 20 you finished on reach your 20 birthday). Just fall in line with all other Cadet forces and cease being cadet once reached 18 years, does away with all the issues relating to over 18, all cadets are children… So in two years you no longer have over 18 cadets.
We did that post LASER report, in 2003, then went back to having 18+ y/o cadets.
Why not just end all cadet service at 18 and appoint those wishing to stay on as either CI or uniformed Probationary Instructors similar to ACF/CCF, removing any reference to ‘cadet’ in the title and making it a CFAV role.
Set expectation for PI to complete certain training and gain relevant experience during that period with reduced supervisory responsibilities (similar to current matrix). Transfer to SNCO/Commissioned post on completion of term if milestones reached. If you want to tier it you could include option for Under Officer for those keen to commission and keep Potential Instructor for those looking to pursue SNCO route. Training package tailored for those roles.
Could turn out a cadre of engaged and well qualified new uniformed adult staff rather than just making that immediate transition from cadet to full blown CFAV. 18-24 months as a PI/UO coming out the other end with some form of useful training qualification and experience of managing activities in an adult capacity. A CFAV apprenticeship if you will.
MB
I think theres a majortity who would prefer that option…
This isn’t what happens in the CCF. No one gets kicked out on their 18th birthday: they can stay until they finish school. We have the entry age linked to academic years, why not do the same with the point at which cadets age out (i.e. when they leave secondary education)?
Covered in the call - the cadets in the CCF at a school are covered under peer exemption under the department of education so they don’t jump through the staff cadet hoops unless they go to a regional or national event.
That exemption does not exist for those outside schools.
Maybe the plan is to do this so badly that it forces everyone to get to the same conclusion that ending cadets at 18 is the better option.
It certainly appears like that now. I have 6 x 17 year olds to have this conversation with over the next few months and I cannot honestly give them enough information to make an informed decision. I want to support them to take responsibility and become part of the staff team (if they want it), but now I can’t as they’ll have to move and most can’t, so they’ll have to leave.
More utter rubbish.
Or just stay as staff cadets? Which might actually just be a deferred exit, because outside of the elusive national courses (if you even get selected), it’s quite challenging to keep our 18+ year old cadets engaged without offering them greater responsibility.
In ACF/SCC, when a cadet ages out and transfers to CFAV. What do they do? Do they encourage unit transfers / enforced breaks?
I think it’s six months off unit if going into a uniform/commissioned but not as a CI (SCC) but it’s not a compulsory & always tailored to the individual & ynit.
Yes but that’s hardly a fair choice is it? Stay with us, and the organisation will recognise you’re an adult but will treat you like children and I can’t develop you in to a useful staff member, or go away and have fun and we hope you come back?
It’s so limiting and means I have to knowingly push cadets to stay as cadets regardless of what is best for them if they want to stay with the organisation.
Ah you mean something sensible, volunteer focused and voluntary?
Couldn’t work in the ATC.
A key part of retention is keeping them on the train… if you start messing people around, you’ll lose them.
Yes, there are very valid reasons why experiencing something new will help broaden and develop, but they’re a volunteer, so stop putting rules in place.
And if you get rid of all these shiny O18 opportunities, you could actually fund all the stuff for those U18 cadets you’ve left dreaming of that rare flying opportunity…
The must move units is already causing issues (based on it not being in previous comms).
It’s just adding to the faff factor. Does the ‘gaining’ OC actually want an 18 y/o new CFAV? Do they have the capacity to train, mentor and support?
A large squadron maybe could. A small one struggling for staff might not. And the losing squadron loses a senior cadet they have invested in, perhaps with the hope they’d stay as staff.
Shows a fundamental lack of understanding of both the cadet and the volunteer staff, who must now lose a good contributor if they support them transitioning.
Which let’s be honest, is only going to happen at 18 if they are good anyway!
Again this is one of those areas of policy where it would help to know the ‘why’.
Is it to create separation between cadets and a new staff member?
Is it to ensure they have wider experience?
Is there anything in place to ensure the newly transferred CFAV is developed not just told to make tea?
I was transferred to another an experienced commissioner officer for “development & support” with six years experience as a commissioned officer, 5 years as training officer at a Sqn with over 70 cadets, total nine year experience as a CFAV with pretty much every shooting qual you could expect, including taking teams down to ISCRM, as well as experience in leadership & fieldcraft inc Wg development teams.
I spent a year making tea.
What do you think going to happen to a new 18 year old CI?
Quite
And again IIRC the compulsory move was first mentioned on last week’s town hall. Days before the new policy kicks in.