CFM For CIs: why not?

This has concerned me for a long time.

Other than the differential that uniformed staff are meant to adhere to minimal attendance levels (which many CIs meet or exceed anyway) and there isn’t such a criterion for Civilian Instructors, I can see no real reason why committed and contributing CIs should NOT be eligible for being awarded the Cadet Forces Medal, once the duration of service and OC recommendation requirements are met.

I’d be very interested to hear a reasoned counter-argument to this proposal.

I’m not certain about how such a proposal could be made (yes, yes, observing the CoC etc) but I am certain that such a propostion could be justified.

Tell me why you disagree. And you’d better have some really convincing reasons…

3 Likes

You’ll have to ask the MOD to change the criteria to allow none uniformed staff members. You then hit the issue of back dating it for those who would have received it and then the initial costs of issuing all of those who need to receive it now.

I sense the real reason would then be budget.

I would ask if you a committed CI then why not sign on the line and wear the uniform with the added benefits and ability to claim the medal for the service?

2 Likes

The big issue is going to be the way things work in the MOD in general, civil servants don’t get long service awards.

I don’t disagree with you at all, but the above would be my expected reason given.

Or at least allow those who were CI’s and then went into uniform to count the CI service towards the 12 years, even if the CI numbers of years was capped.

10 Likes

Personally I don’t expect medals or certificates etc to thank me for all the time I give for the cadets. I have the spare time to give and I’m more than happy to spend that at the Sqn or taking cadets to activities. Currently there is nothing I can’t do that I already do that requires me to dress up (Please don’t take offence at that) I’m more than happy to help cadets with their uniform but I’d rather not have my own to keep on top of and that includes having to source greens and all the other items of kit I’d need.

CI me is happy as is and cadets are happy with the time I can give for them. I’m not one who likes recognition but that’s just me.

2 Likes

Out of interest do PIs in the ACF get awarded the CFM/time served? I may be wrong but aren’t they essentially CIs in greens?

This old chestnut.

I would spin this and as @DontCallMeSir implies why bother, if you can all you need to do without one. The question should be, “what advantages and benefits are there for you personally to go into uniform within the ATC?”
All you get are a few shekels and trinkets if you tick the appropriate boxes and are allowed to make a claim.

2 Likes

The qualification period starts as soon as they are appointed as a PI. It should not be assumed that the PI is just sitting about doing very little. It is a very demanding period with a lot of training and courses to complete within a 2 year time frame.

Some CIs may have absolutely no interest in going into uniform. And shouldn’t be forced into uniform either.

4 Likes

No. As far as I am aware when I looked into ACF, they don’t have CIs the only thing they have is a progression into uniform.

2.3.1.3.3. Non-Uniformed Volunteers2. Non-uniformed volunteers can assist in most of the training and administration activities in the ACF. Non-uniformed volunteers can give valuable help in specialist subjects where they bring with them professionally recognised qualification. Volunteering as an NUV may also be a suitable way for those who have reached the upper age for uniformed membership of the ACF to continue to use their skills and experience to the benefit of the cadet organisation. Their use at all levels is positively encouraged. If they are appropriately qualified, NUVs may carry out the same activities as an SI with the following exceptions, they cannot:
a. Hold the appointment of Detachment Commander.
b. Conduct drill and turnout training.
c. Conduct Fieldcraft instruction (classroom based instruction of theory is allowed).
d. Act as an ECO or exercise safety staff (acting as role player or welfare support on exercise is allowed although weapons are not to be carried).
Army Cadet Force Regulations 2-25 AC 14233
e. Conduct Skill at Arms instruction (coaching marksmanship on all Cadet Force weapons except Cadet GP rifle is allowed)
f. Act as an RCO or range safety staff (acting as DCCT operator and acting as the medic is allowed).

1 Like

What’s that from? ACF regulations?

Yes it is.

1 Like

Bang on. Cheers for that.

The ACF does have CIs, but they seem to be restricted to those resigning or retiring and it would seem they can do practically everything. Which makes the bit above somewhat nonsensical.

I would suggest the only reason to be in uniform to do things, is because the idea of a civvie doing things doesn’t fit the blinkered military perspective. Except of course for the many and various contracted out things in the modern military, done by non-military civilian companies and personnel. Which does make the insistence for uniformed adults within cadet forces a bit nonsensical, IMO.

Non-uniformed staff don’t get the CFM, but they do get the Long Service Certificate. Seen as something by many.

Yeah they do for more 25 years service it’s called the Imperial service medal.

Yes agree with this comment by @alexw 100%.

1 Like

Agree

My honest opinion is that there are so few ‘benefit’ differentials between ci and uniform now that uniform staff do deserve the medal over non uniformed personnel.

Uniformed staff dont have the option to attend or not attend on a whim, to pull out of events or just decide to not shave on an evening.
CIs, (no matter how good you maybe individually) do have these options and therefore shouldn’t be recognised with the medal.

Finally. If CIs do get the medal… where exactly is the line to be drawn and at what point do us in uniform just go “sod it”.

1 Like