Latest salvo in the CCF funding saga - letter from ACDS R&C to headmasters proposing a timetable for cuts to existing CCF funding to fund the spectacularly successful Cadet Expansion Programme includes the loss of PTDs from 2016. Obviously if we go down, we go down fighting.
ATC will be next…
(When they came for the Jews, I said nothing, because I was not a Jew…)
No they won’t because they are not opening any squadrons, they are opening CCF units. Everyone knows it’s a Government directive which isn’t sustainable and is resulting in the demise of local units as some are opening within a three mile radius of existing sqns.
It’s your problem. You fix it. The ATC know it’s a rubbish idea and said so at the get-go.
It’s not my problem. We didn’t ask for it. The existing CCFs don’t oppose CEP as such, but I don’t know anyone in favour of new CCF units in areas with existing ATC/ACF/SCC units which might be affected. If we did support CEP, we wouldn’t now we have been told to pay for it. Imagine if you are a successful state school CCF - like the two I was on camp with last week - and had this news.
There have been very few successful CEP CCFs. Name me a unit which has closed as a result.
I know three units in the region which have seen a reduction in 37% of cadets (actual and forecasted*).
I think that the CEP is a good idea, and that people have the wrong end of the stick with it. If a CCF unit opens up in a school in a large area, with many schools and the odd ATC/ACF/SCC unit around, any kid that joins their schools unit will tell friends, not all friends go to the same schools, they may, go to look at their local cadet unit. So the CEP is a good idea, boost the publics view of cadets, youth doing good things not bad, parents enjoy their child being a cadet, cadet tells friends, friends join local cadet unit.
I think it’s a good idea.
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I think it’s the most retarded government initiative for a long time!
They’ve chosen to spend more by setting up a whole new series of cadet units instead of spending less (and getting greater benefit) by providing more support to the existing cadet forces.
One can only imagine that the entire house must have been on LSD that day…
I do think it’s a crying shame that the PTDs are going for the CCF. By 2016 though the stupid scheme should have been forgotten.
Has anyone written to their MP about it yet?
I’ve only just received the letter from Wg Cdr CCF that was sent to all Head teachers and Contingent Commanders. Personally, I think that the originator of the letter has been on the funny juice. He talks of ‘sustainable funding regimes’, ‘positive change’ and that he wants to reassure us that the MOD isn’t reducing funding at all.
Nope, no decrease in funding. What the Government have clearly done is say: ‘we want a bigger cadet force and we won’t reduce funding. In fact, the existing cadet forces will have to pay for our wonderful idea’. I can think of several, very unprofessional words that I could use to describe this act of fiscal irresponsibility. How does ‘from 2016 we’re not going to pay you any more’ translate into ‘positive change’?
Complete bollocks.
Thing is, this will affect the CCF initially but as time goes by, I CAN see the ATC and ACF being affected as well. I’d like to know how they propose to recruit staff for these state CCF’s from the teaching staff by telling them they’ll have to give up their weekends and holidays to organise cadet activities for no extra remuneration. I wonder if the Government have heard that the NUT are unhappy about other things, so what do they think they might say about this? If there is a lack of teaching staff to fill positions in these new units, I can see ATC and ACF staff being tasked by Wings & Rgns to assist, with a [i]‘Oh and by the way, you won’t be paid for it unless it comes from within your existing allocation’…[/I]
I can only hope that this silly idea falls flat on its face in the interim period. I’ve submitted my thoughts to my CC for onward transmission, however, I somehow get the impression that these proposals will be steam-rollered through irrespective of what the CCF staff feel about it all.
Have we? How is reduced funding (for that is what the proposals actually represent) and the removal of PTD’s a ‘good idea’? It doesn’t actually incentivise staff to join and contrary to popular belief, you can have as many cadets as you like but unless you have the staff to run the units, you ain’t got a cadet unit of any sort. It represents trying to do even more with even less and as we have the perennial problem of recruiting and retaining staff at the moment, it doesn’t bode well for the success of what I consider to be a hare-brained scheme.
The ‘odd ATC\ACF\SCC unit around’? How often does that occur? If Prune is right (and I’ve no reason to doubt it knowing what he does for a day job) then local units could well experience a reduction in their numbers. The knock-on effect to some of the smaller units struggling to stay open, will not be good.
In order to get my head around this government initiative I’ve looked back at a number of the statements made by the recently departed Sec of State for Education and other government announcements concerning the expansion of CCFs in state schools and I offer the following as a first cut and probably flawed analysis.
Traditional Values and Discipline
(1) The Conservative element of the coalition government is strong on “traditional values”.
(2) Michael Gove was keen to promote the virtues of private education with traditional values as a model for state schools to aspire to.
(3) Independent schools are deemed to have no discipline problems ( and many have CCFs).
(4) Many state schools are perceived to have discipline problems ( and most do not have CCFs).
(5) The huge value of cadet forces for state school pupils is exemplified by the success of community based units who turn out well rounded individuals.
QED: solve the discipline problems in some state schools by introducing CCFs as a first step to moving towards a “total curriculum” approach enjoyed currently within most independent education. (Ignore the fact that the Teachers hours contracts introduced by Margaret Thatcher in the 1980s destroyed the very state provision the current govt appears to wish to re-introduce).
Finance.
(1) Fund the new CCFs by looking for commercial/other sponsors.
QED: introduce new CCFs without affecting the current funding structure.
However, when you cannot raise the money this way you cannot back down so find other funding options.
(2) Given that most independent schools charge for non-core activities (and CCFs have often been an exception) introduce a charge (£225 per year?) which equates to ATC subs of £18.75 per cadet per month. Pay that to the centre. ( with @ 40,000 CCF cadets that makes £9M).
(3) Teachers in independent schools are not normally paid for running clubs and sports teams so why should they get extra for CCF? That will be a huge saving!!! Retain that at the centre.
(4) Schools already pay for accommodation, heat , light, admin consumables so they are a non-issue.
Things Forgotten/Ignored
(1) In order for cadets to be s success in schools the new CCFs will have to be integral part of school life the contingents would have to be run by experienced members of the core staff and not outsiders. This will be a real challenge – I recently saw an established contingent from a state school on summer camp. There were NO teachers on the CCF staff all were external volunteers with an average age of 65!!
(2) The equation between discipline, CCFs and independent schools is misunderstood. Most independent schools share common values with their pupils and their parents. Whether or not there is a CCF there is usually a disciplined learning environment. The CCF is not the prime factor.
(3) The great strength of community based cadet organisations is that they are not run by schools. The staff, processes and procedures are run by a different body of adults and it is a voluntary activity for cadets.
(4) Many cadets in community based units do not last long (I have seen 18 mths quoted). Those retained are the committed. I doubt that schools will want to have such a free flow and so an element of compulsion will be evident (even if only to the end of an academic year)……suddenly you are back to “ just another school lesson”.
Final Thoughts.
It is right and proper to look at the long term funding of cadets. Independent schools have benefitted for a low cost/ no cost pupil development option for a long time and it may be time to make changes. Whoever is elected in 2015 will have hard choices to make (it is only the speed in the increase of the deficit that is declining – the National Debt is growing. Lastly the core thinking behind this initiative, Traditional Values and Discipline, seems flawed to me.
You make a lot of sense, BUT CCFs currently deliver the ‘cadet experience’ for not much more than 50% of the cost to the public purse of other cadet organisations. See annex H to DYER for details. This is probably (unproven as DYER did not investigate) due to hidden subsidies, as you say, in the areas of heat/light/buildings/transport.
The non-public cost of CCFs is unknown. CCFA is doing work to find this out, but the net result might be that once CEP schools discover just how expensive CCFs are to the host school, they won’t want one. As one of the aims of this new proposal is to level the playing field, one has to assume that CCF CFAVs in state schools wouldn’t get paid either, and as stated, this is going to be a show stopper for recruitment.
The light I see at the end of the tunnel is that the funding situation is supposed to be subject to annual review. As I don’t see CEP succeeding, perhaps the cuts will not be necessary…
Judging by the comments from CCF RAFVR(T) officers on ACLC, this will affect the ATC:
We’ll have an influx of officers transferring across, and some new school squadrons (and ACF/SCC equivalents) in public schools… they didn’t seem particularly impressed by the new policy.
It’s a no-brainer really - why have a CCF (RAF) section where your cadets have to pay hundreds of pounds PA and you don’t get paid for working during your holidays, when you could just run an ATC sqn where the subs are a fraction of the price and you get up to 35(?) PTDs per year?
[quote=“tmmorris” post=19779]You make a lot of sense, BUT CCFs currently deliver the ‘cadet experience’ for not much more than 50% of the cost to the public purse of other cadet organisations. See annex H to DYER for details. This is probably (unproven as DYER did not investigate) due to hidden subsidies, as you say, in the areas of heat/light/buildings/transport.[/quote] Absolutely. Add in many ACF dets are in need of immediate repair or replacement and transport has to be hired in many cases or in my case collected from a site 40 miles away before I’ve even put a cadet on board.
[quote]The non-public cost of CCFs is unknown. CCFA is doing work to find this out, but the net result might be that once CEP schools discover just how expensive CCFs are to the host school, they won’t want one. As one of the aims of this new proposal is to level the playing field, one has to assume that CCF CFAVs in state schools wouldn’t get paid either, and as stated, this is going to be a show stopper for recruitment.[/quote]As if there aren’t enough factors [show] stopping recruitment already.
[quote]The light I see at the end of the tunnel is that the funding situation is supposed to be subject to annual review. As I don’t see CEP succeeding, perhaps the cuts will not be necessary…[/quote]I think that when certain establishment figures see what is going to to happen to their beloved CCFs Cameron will be getting the good news from the people who REALLY run this country. A quicker u-turn than the pastie tax.
[quote=“tmmorris” post=19700]Latest salvo in the CCF funding saga - letter from ACDS R&C to headmasters proposing a timetable for cuts to existing CCF funding to fund the spectacularly successful Cadet Expansion Programme includes the loss of PTDs from 2016. Obviously if we go down, we go down fighting.
ATC will be next…
(When they came for the Jews, I said nothing, because I was not a Jew…)[/quote]I am curious. Pray tell me how you are going to fight?
If you are given an order, you will obey.
Complain and then leave if it doesn’t change?
[quote=“bucketofinstantsunshine” post=19816][quote=“tmmorris” post=19700]Latest salvo in the CCF funding saga - letter from ACDS R&C to headmasters proposing a timetable for cuts to existing CCF funding to fund the spectacularly successful Cadet Expansion Programme includes the loss of PTDs from 2016. Obviously if we go down, we go down fighting.
ATC will be next…
(When they came for the Jews, I said nothing, because I was not a Jew…)[/quote]I am curious. Pray tell me how you are going to fight?
If you are given an order, you will obey.[/quote]
Call it extreme if you like, but I propose we hit it hard and hit it fast with a major - and I mean major - leaflet campaign.
[attachment=183]remembering_rimmer_4.jpg[/attachment]
Obey? My Commanding Officer is the head teacher, I’ll do what I’m told by him…
And if they are really going to screw up the CCF to that extent, then I’ll certainly not sit by and watch. The worst they can do is terminate my commission and if the CCF goes tits-up I’ll lose that anyway.
Or as stated transfer across to the ATC. In fact, I told Comdt AC to her face that if this went through, I’d be loading up a couple of minibuses twice a week and driving them across to the ATC Sqn a couple of miles away…
bucketofinstantsunshine: “If you are given an order, you will obey.”
I don’t think CCFs work that way; at least none that I have come across do!
If they take away PTDs, I can’t imagine many school staff will bother to apply for a commission and go through OIC. I would probably resign my commission and become a civilian - it won’t make any difference to what I do each week.
Can someone on here explain how ATC funding works (ie how much you charge, how much goes to a Sqn and how much to HQAC)? In the CCF, I believe we get a contingent grant per cadet per year (I am sure tmmorris knows how much?) and our school also charges each cadet about £15-20 per term.
Contingent grant was just over £20 per cadet per year, but recently cut at least by our brigade because they say we can now demand more kit through the system. I have yet to check if this is true; plus Sp Comd published a new list of approved things to spend one’s grant on which was totally army-focussed and purported to override JSP313, which they can’t do. The specific item I have kicked off about is that JSP313 says I can spend money on boat maintenance for my RN section; the Sp Comd list doesn’t include this. However the list in JSP313 is pretty broad and for example I have spent money in the past on a computer for flight simulation which I am sure the army wouldn’t want me to have bought…
It’s not just PTDs which are under threat, but also the Contingent grant, plus they want to levy a charge of £175 per cadet per year eventually…
[quote=“tmmorris” post=19902]
It’s not just PTDs which are under threat, but also the Contingent grant, plus they want to levy a charge of £175 per cadet per year eventually…[/quote]
So largely bringing them into line with ATC cadets.