The rules have changed in the last few years. All those years back when your OC was a cadet it maybe was the case (or maybe wasn’t as clear)
I never transferred rank as I thought it would be conflicting. If one unit saw me as an experienced leader (the CCF) but the ATC hadn’t seen me in the same light then the cadets may not think I’m deserving of the rank. However, I transferred my classifications, first aid, leadership courses etc, as I didn’t see a point of doing them twice.
This sounds bad, but I think as long as both OCs are aware, and they do things with common sense, there won’t be an issue with doing both. They’re very different organisations and I benefited from both in very different ways.
Interesting to see this revived. I remember it the last time. A couple of thoughts from the CCF perspective…
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JSP814 has been consistent (in my time i.e. 7 years as OC) in allowing membership of more than one cadet force irrespective of whether CCF membership is compulsory. So if push had come to shove, AP1919 might have been found wanting.
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Transfer of rank within the ACO is theoretically allowed but a CCF cadet would be unlikely to have undertaken the same training/selection process as the ATC. In either direction I’d want some sort of filter/interview/test before allowing it. Also at higher ranks CCF Part 3 is less difficult to achieve than ATC Senior Cadet so transfer at or above FS from CCF (RAF) to ATC would be inappropriate without further syllabus progress. CCF cadets of course have to leave at 18y9m. A CCF (RAF) cadet is still a cadet until that point and does not have to do BASIC but would have to become a Staff Cadet on the ATC Sqn at 18.
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As far as I can see WESTMINSTER doesn’t allow a cadet to be a member of more than one cadet force. All CCF cadets of all three sections have to be on WESTMINSTER. This would cause problems if a CCF cadet of any flavour were to join the SCC or ACF. Not sure about BADER: the latter does definitely allow officers to be in that situation as I have an officer whose primary posting is OC RAF Section here but is also an officer on a local ATC Sqn. (Transfer of rank here has raised an eyebrow or two; but the CCF is his primary posting and he’s legitimately a Flt Lt therefore, paid…! I assume his ATC work is paid at Fg Off though.) Cadets may be the same but I’ve not needed to try.
Correct. They did.
The MOD felt it allowed cadets two bites of the cherry for various opportunities, and it buggered up the cadet calculator maths which we all depend on for resource allocation
Interesting. I wonder if anyone’s tested that one. I will ask Bde cadets staff. If cadets are allowed to be in more than one then they should be allowed as it were.
The Cadet Calculator is responsible for a lot of tail wagging dog in my opinion!
I reply to transfers-
I joined the ATC in 2012 after having done 2 years in the CCF. i made the choice not to transfer rank as I believed that transferred rank from the CCF is not deserving of the respect cadet ought to give if they hadn’t seen you earn it. However, my OC was fairly open to transferring it. However, I was adamant on transferring classification and things like ACLC/YFA/AFA because they’re pretty standard across the board. Part 3 is different to Senior, but I don’ think I suffered because of that.
What is interesting to observe is that CCFs, more often than not it seems, do not transfer ATC (or ACF) ranks into the system. However, that’ll be due to the running of the CCF more often than not, but still interesting!
PI 501 has been updated and is now more “reader friendly”:-
21. Membership of other organisations and cadet forces. Cadets are permitted to be members of more than one organisation at the same time (eg ATC, ACF, SCC, RMC, CCF(A, RN, RM or RAF) or University Air Squadron). Cadets cannot be members of more than one ATC sqn at the same time. However, cadets can hold concurrent dual membership of an ATC Sqn and a CCF (RAF) section. Cadets may also serve in a supplementary capacity on a Voluntary Gliding Squadron (VGS) at the same time as being members of an ATC squadron or CCF contingent. Membership of more than one organisation is only allowed where the commanding officers of the units are aware, agree and that this is not at the expense of young people on a waiting list.
Interesting that you can now be a VR(UAS) officer cadet and a ATC cadet at the same time.
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M’ship of UAS and ATC was allowed before, just that the instructions didn’t actually specify/clarify. The inference was there, insofar as UAS isn’t a cadet force, but the new version is quite specific,
Did cause me a problem once. Had a cadet who joined UAS, continued to attend as a cadet, but told the other cadets that they now had to call him Sir as he was an officer cadet and therefore entitled to compliments (dined in OM so therefore was an officer!). Soon put back in box!
Someone probably ought to tell the UAS…
I had a senior cadet who was told by Oxford UAS that she had to leave the ATC otherwise she could not join - She could not do both.
I knew this to be utter BS but, unsurprisingly, she chose to leave the ATC so that she could pursue UAS at Uni. Shame.
UAS Officer Cadets are not officers, they are enlisted in to the VR as Airman with the status of Officer Cadet, but they do not hold a commission and are not saluted. Note they wear Airman cap badges, they are however formally addressed as Ma’am or Sir by junior ranks and NCOs.
Now, some UAS students are commissioned in the rank of Acting Pilot Officer and wear officer head dress. I can’t imagine the intention of this new regulation pertains to these UAS members as you don’t cease to hold the Queen’s Commission and therefore your cadet would in theory be entitled to compliments 
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A UAS APO is entitled to the same compliments as a RAFAC APO, whereas I think a VR OCdt would be same as old VR(T) OCdt and not saluted. That said I always found the OCdt rank was a strange one to apply to adults in a cadet force. I think ACF has Adult Under Officers now?
Erm VR(T) OCdts we’re entitled to be saluted as their was no such thing. (They were Pilot Officers acting down a tank).
I’ve seen people with that rank though? Or was it an ATC construct?
It was an ATC construct. So you wore white tapes with VRT pins, no white band on your headdress and you were saluted.
Whereas with the new CFC commission the date given on your scroll is the end of your probation or completion of OIC, whichever is later, meaning technically no APO is commissioned and shouldn’t recurve compliments.
Back on topic, why would anyone want to be in both? People need some time off.
I did both. CCF was a Thursday afternoon at school during school hours so other than an extra camp each summer it wasn’t really any extra time. I enjoyed cadets so it was my main hobby.
My Squadron has a Cadet who does CCF (RAF) at School on a Wednesday afternoon and is in the ATC Monday and Thursday evenings.
- they enjoy it
- double the opportunities
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