CCF *and* ATC?

Coming back just for the holidays isn’t really on. You can’t have cadets that only parade for a couple of months every year!

[quote=“talon” post=2591]Coming back just for the holidays isn’t really on. You can’t have cadets that only parade for a couple of months every year![/quote]Why not?

Coming back just for the holidays isn’t really on. You can’t have cadets that only parade for a couple of months every year![/quote]

If they want to pay subs for the whole year just to come back in the holidays then let em!

My CO was ATC and joined a school where everyone did CCF, but he couldnt join the RAF section due to his ATC membership, so became part of the ACF, and slowly rotate the DPM stock in his squadron stores :wink:

Coming back just for the holidays isn’t really on. You can’t have cadets that only parade for a couple of months every year![/quote]

If they want to pay subs for the whole year just to come back in the holidays then let em![/quote]

Agreed I don’t see the problem.

Coming back just for the holidays isn’t really on. You can’t have cadets that only parade for a couple of months every year![/quote]

If they want to pay subs for the whole year just to come back in the holidays then let em![/quote]

Agreed I don’t see the problem.[/quote]

Because you end up with cadets on the books who rarely turn up. Someone higher up might then start asking why you have X cadets on the books that aren’t parading and tell you to remove them. You could falsify the attendance, but then you might get asked why you have a small group of cadets that never pass any assessments!

That is assuming you chaps record cadet attendance!

IMO if a cadet has worth, such as knowledge that they can pass on to the cadets when they are around then why not, but if a cadet wants to stay on the books for the holidays and then can’t be bothered with anything going then it’s different. They may have changed schools and now have the option of CCF, but that is no different to any other after school club such as football, which other cadets do anyway. So why do they not continue to come down during the school term also?

Cadets that go to University are a different issue, and would benefit from fully involving themselves in Uni Life, they can always be discharged and then rejoin, that happened with a Sgt at my old unit, he cam back in the summer and took the Drill Team.

Question

I have a cadet Sgt (Aged 18) who WORKS in a school. Currently (I have been told) he is attending the CCF(RAF) as a cadet, while being PAID as an extra duty along side his normal work.

I don’t think this is allowed (issues with CoC, duty of care, is he staff or cadet etc). He is currently attending in his ATC uniform, which makes it my issue.

Any help would be appreciated, and will be passing this through my COC after the Christmas break.

Thanks

We have a similar situation to this.

Our CCF(RAF) section has an ex-pupil (aged 19) who is a FS in the local ATC, but still comes back to help out with our training during our parade afternoon, given his level of expertise. As far as the school is concerned, he is a CRB checked adult volunteer. He usually wears DPM with Civilian Instructor Rank Slides (before anyone gets excited, he is a CCF helper, not a CCF(RAF) helper, so is not bound by AP1358C).

It seems odd that your cadet gets paid to attend as an extra part of his job, but then attends as a cadet not a member of staff.

[quote=“juliet mike” post=2647]Question

I have a cadet Sgt (Aged 18) who WORKS in a school. Currently (I have been told) he is attending the CCF(RAF) as a cadet, while being PAID as an extra duty along side his normal work.

I don’t think this is allowed (issues with CoC, duty of care, is he staff or cadet etc). He is currently attending in his ATC uniform, which makes it my issue.

Any help would be appreciated, and will be passing this through my COC after the Christmas break.

Thanks[/quote]

Whether he is allowed to attend as a cadet is not your issue, it is up to the CCF. What is your issue is the fact that he is wearing ATC uniform. If the CCF want to have him as a cadet they should issue him with uniform.

Odd - but not unusual. Two of our local academies now employ 16-18 year old apprentices as Teaching Assistants, IT support, Business/Admin staff and “Sports coaching” staff. All are employed directly by the school (who subsequently claim £2500 from the government under “Youth Contract funding” for employing an apprentice (effectively 50% of their wages!!!).

I’d imagine that they can’t - by Regulation - be viewed as staff members within the CCF due to their age. You’d need to check ACP22 for guidance, but I doubt you could have a 16 year old member of staff. The options would be “don’t partake and support this element of the “cirriculum”” or “partake but you’ll have to be a cadet”. Thats the only loop hole I can think of which might come into play!

Sorry for the reviving of an old thread but I have a similar situation. One of the local CCF (RAF) cadets has expressed an interest in joining the local ATC Sqn. I have looked it up in AP1919 & found the wording as above but what threw me is the paragraph then goes on to say ‘cadets cannot be members of two sqns or detachments at the same time but may be members of both the ATC & CCF simultaneously’ - is this still on the proviso that the CCF is compulsory or not? The wording is very ambiguous in my opinion,

Better to refer to ACP20 which mirrors JSP814:

21. Membership of other organisations and cadet forces. Cadets are permitted to be members of more than one organisation (eg cadet force or University Air Squadron) at the same time, providing the commanding officers of the units are aware, agree and that this is not at the expense of young people on a waiting list. Although Flight Staff Cadets can also serve in a supplementary capacity on a Voluntary Gliding Squadron (VGS) at the same time as being members of an ATC squadron, cadets cannot be members of more than one ATC sqn or CCF contingent at the same time.

The compulsory/voluntary nature of the CCF is not a factor. They could equally be in any two or more of the community cadet forces.

I’ve never seen that before! Only the part which mentions you CAN be part of the two organisations.
If that’s what the book says, then that’s what the book says.
I quite enjoyed being part of both CCFRAF and the ATC, but it was quite busy with so much time commitment…

Incubus, the thing with JSP814 is it hasn’t been updated to reflect the change in joining age for the ATC, it still says 13. Hence why I was going off AP 1919. But it answers the question anyway.

I shall let the cadet in question know. It’s good that somebody else has come to the same conclusion that I have from reading the regulations & that nothing appears to have changed in three years.

I’ve got cadets in scouts, guides and other youth groups and sometimes there is a conflict.
I can imagine that you could get promoted on one squadron and not another and do other things if there were different staff capabilities, which would be interesting. It happens between organisations.

You think AP1919 is more current? It never is and never has been; even when the new version was released it was already obsolete :slightly_smiling:

ACP20 has been doing quite a good job of being current.

Both my lads were members of the ATC and CCF(Army) at the same time. The CCF in their school was compulsory and they joined that after they’d joined the ATC. Neither units had a problem with it.

Was that as a Cadet or member of staff? If the latter, a RAFVR(T) officer is permitted to hold a dual commission allowing him\her to work with both ATC and CCF(RAF). I know, because I held a dual commission for 3 years.

That was as a Cadet :slight_smile: