It is quite normal for certain people in a parade to dressed differently to others. A good example would be a colour party. These are often in one order of dress higher than everyone else. I always liked to have a full banner party in No.2 dress so always tried to have 5 senior cadets with it. It worked well.
If you have random people in a squad in 2s it would look odd.
So do you think that banner parties should be dressed in number 1’s? or those carrying the RAFA banner
I don’t pay much attention to RAF traditions so I wouldn’t know. I imagine the big difference is that RAF parades are normally in 1s anyway and don’t generally parade in combat dress, so you may not have the precedent there to go with. The Army do parade in 2s or combats, depending on the occasion - my main point is that, for us, having two (or three with a band!) orders of dress on parade is perfectly normal.
If you were to have only certain cadets wearing them, they would be the ones to go with.
We normally have staff in 1s and cadets in 2s on a typical parade, so there is a mix anyway. Quite often we have some staff in 2s as well since they just don’t have 1s (or don’t have 1s that fit)
no.
the only difference would be a different belt buckle, and would only be worth it for those who are that way inclined and have the spare £20 for a belt which doesn’t look different.
ok yes i accept.
although how many of those SNCOs with No1s shouldn’t be unless all staff are in them (or has that rule gone that it is all or none?)
Never seen that in AP1358C so i would imagine its a non issue. I get your point though, 1 or all would look better.
This is where we play the uniformity card.
If we cannot have absolute uniformity, then at least we can have all staff in 1s, or all staff in the diamond in 1s… Availability of staff and uniforms does not always fall in our favour.
Personally, depending on the make up of staff numbers, I would look to achieve diamond in 1s and 2s as supernumerary.
The priority should be kitting out No 3 before No1s. They will wear No3 100x more than No1
Taken from version 3.0 para 201
- Occasions for Wear. The No 1 SD is to be worn on all formal and ceremonial occasions as ordered by MOD or Commanders in Chief (CINCs). Additionally, although No 1 SD is not normally worn on parade or formal occasions by those below the appointment of Wing Warrant Officer, OC Wg / Wg Ex O / Sqn Ldr CCF have the discretionary power to authorise its wear at other times. Before authorising its wear OC Wg / Wg Ex O / Sqn Ldr CCF are to ensure that all adult staff on parade or attending the formal occasion are similarly attired to maintain uniformity
my bold - it is there although I doubt anyone has ever enforced it.
As SNCOs do not get issues No1s either everyone is in Jumpers (or shirts as appropriate) or the SNCOs without No1s don’t parade at all - if it were applied to the letter of the law.
the annual BoB parade I attend which typically has 4+ units attending we see a 50/50 split of Staff in No1s and no one has dared raise this paragraph.
who, without No1s, but wish to be on parade would be brave enough to indicate that the Officers have to put jumpers on, or on the flip side who with No1s are brave enough to tell the SNCOs they cannot parade because those with No1s don’t have jumpers with them?
Worse than that, they no longer issue staff with no. 2s either - they just tell them to pop their medals on their MTP which is incredibly gash.
I still cringe at the memory of piles of barrack dress trousers and khaki shirts being burned instead of being given to the ACF…
It is a bit like when the Army stopped wanting to use the LSW and so scrapped the lot instead of just letting the cadet forces have them all.
Very interesting, as much as LSW was gash in its intended role, it could have proved useful to the cadets, as the weight is countered by the bipod, a good long range target rifle. I would imagine it was ditched due to it being deemed “a support weapon”. Were they destroyed, sold, or cannibalised?
The Army were reissuing them for a while as Marksman rifle but I would imagine that’s binned off due to the sharpshooter taking over. And there was rumours of it coming back but I hope not.
Unknown. I imagine they are still sitting in a warehouse somewhere. The reason that we couldn’t have them was given that the Army didn’t want to support a weapon that they weren’t using, but that doesn’t stop them supporting all our other weapons that they don’t use. The current plan is to issue the L85A3 instead, but who know when that will happen…
Unfortunately it never got reintroduced when FAD came along with the newer barrack dress style.
LSW’s were certainly being taken to Afghanistan in the 2002-2008 timespan - they were fantastic in the sharpshooter role and units with the brains that God gave a sheep took as many as they could steal.
LSW’s were also fantastic for cadet shooting - they were very stable, with the shoulder and the bipod taking all the weight. my unit supported/took a number of Sqn’s to field firing ranges with the LSW - young, smaller cadets could do effective and confidence building shooting out to 6-700m in ‘real world’ conditions, and they absolutely loved it.
Do you think that if a promotional criteria for the ranks come out, to make the organisation more uniformed, that NCO’s should wear number 1’s as number 1’s without rank badges wouldn’t look right? So it could be a NCO privilege
Once again, no.
Cost is far to much an issue with ever issuing cadets with No1’s.
Adult NCO’s dont get issued with No1’s because of cost, there are far less of them than cadet NCO’s.
Unfortunately you are going to either become a Lord Lieutenants cadet, or wait till you are 20 to wear No1’s (there are a couple of other exceptions).
Sorry
I’m getting feeling that the original point of this thread is try to scrape some hope that one day cadets will be issued or permitted to wear no 1s more freely
It’ll never happen
The only way it is ever going to happen is if someone builds a time machine and goes back 10-15 years when the rule was flouted and we wore No1’s anyway.
Edited - Not that it ever fit and normally looked like a sack of potatoes tied in the middle