i soon will be timing out of my cadet career after 7 years. What would you recommend begin the best route for profession as a staff member and giving more back to the cadets.
i have spent 7 years at one squadron refusing to move no matter how bad situations got regarding demotions, bad staff, bullying of cadets by staff and a few demotions in the middle, i refused to move because of how much the cadets meant to me and how proud i was to go to that sqn because of how long id been there. however I’m now struggling to enjoy my position at the squadron with the poor guidance and support the staff provide cadets.
what I’m really asking is what would people advise is the bet outcome?
id also like advice on what is the best staff role for an ex cadet to take, id love to stay in uniform however is ci - sgt the best route? and whats the youngest people could see someone being accepted onto an officers role.
Regardless of what your unit is like, I’d strongly advise you to move units anyway and get a fresh start and a clean break away from being a cadet
The route is up to you. Unlike some people, I won’t automatically suggest that you become a CI whatever you feel - but if you don’t yet know what you want to do then that’s probably best. If you know 100% that you want to be an officer or SNCO then there is no real lower age limit - I was commissioned at 20. But you’ve got your whole life ahead of you, so don’t be pressured into anything if you’re not sure!
[quote=“MattB” post=18432]1) Regardless of what your unit is like, I’d strongly advise you to move units anyway and get a fresh start and a clean break away from being a cadet
2) The route is up to you. Unlike some people, I won’t automatically suggest that you become a CI whatever you feel - but if you don’t yet know what you want to do then that’s probably best. If you know 100% that you want to be an officer or SNCO then there is no real lower age limit - I was commissioned at 20. But you’ve got your whole life ahead of you, so don’t be pressured into anything if you’re not sure![/quote]
i am 100% set on the fact i want to stay in uniform! i want to be able to make a change to a sqn and have an impact that can make cadets enjoyable for the kids, and i know the way to do this is in uniform! I’m just unsure as to what routes will be open to me ages 20 going down the officer route?
After ageing out as a CWO, I’ve been a CI for a few years now. My VR(T) application has recently gone in, but I’ve really valued my time as a CI.
There are other people (who I’m sure will post) who went straight for a commission and did very well out of it.
The deciding factors for me were the additional flexibility that you get as a CI, and the slight ‘step back’ that allows you to see the uniformed cadre from the outside. Nearly every course or opportunity is open to you as a CI, so unless you’re particularly into drill, I don’t think there’s much to lose.
After ageing out as a CWO, I’ve been a CI for a few years now. My VR(T) application has recently gone in, but I’ve really valued my time as a CI.
There are other people (who I’m sure will post) who went straight for a commission and did very well out of it.
The deciding factors for me were the additional flexibility that you get as a CI, and the slight ‘step back’ that allows you to see the uniformed cadre from the outside. Nearly every course or opportunity is open to you as a CI, so unless you’re particularly into drill, I don’t think there’s much to lose.[/quote]
unfortunately dress, drill and discipline are a strong point of mine and i enjoy these!
I take it that you are on the verge of timing out and unless you have got yor paperwork in and boards (you should do a pre-board) done, you won’t go straight into adult uniform, also check if your Wing requires a pre-uniform course (many do) and if so when the next one is.
Jacques’ comment about a step back is valid as it does gives you a chance to breath. I would suggest there are more enthusiastic cadets who went straight into adult uniform who are no longer involved in the Corps, than those who didn’t.
I get a feeling from your thread that you are not happy about the situation on your squadron. If you were to stay on your current sqn (not something I would advise) the people you currently seemingly despise will become your colleagues and chances are they won’t take it kindly if you went in regarding yourself as an avenging angel.
Go out and find a bit of life experience. Join up, travel, uni…the list goes on. But I find sometimes that its best to go out and broaden your life experience then come back in a few years and offer help.
While life experience is key for adult staff, walking away will inevitably mean being a CI on returning just to ensure your heart is still in it intially and not many that do walk, come back to the organisation. For no other reason than finding volunteering and life in the adult world don’t generally mix, even more so if you are married / in a relationship as you need the other person’s agreement and understanding.
Whatever way you jump you need to know what your role will be and you will only do that by talking to your CO. If you have SNCOs established in roles, don’t expect to usurp them or gain their acceptance by treading on their toes. Then there is “professional distance”, we aren’t here to be the cadets’ mates. One thing I’ve had to do in the past is remind ex-cadets that are no longer cadets.
having read your other thread, the one thing that leaps out is ‘conflict’.
personally i would suggest that you time out, go to uni/whatever, and come back as a CI in 3 years but NOT to your old Sqn - not only are the same charactors likely to be in place and therefore the same issues, but even if they aren’t, only being on one Sqn will give you a pretty limited view of the ACO and staff roles.
if you really, really don’t want to leave the ACO, then time out, join another Sqn as a CI, and make better decisions in a years time.
i would absolutely not, under any circumstances, apply to go become adult staff within your own unit - because of the current conflict you’ll be about as welcome as Al Quada at a CAA conference, you’ll be at the bottom of the food chain so can’t change anything anyway, and all you’ll achieve is getting up peoples noses, feel frustrated and leave.
you also have to consider whether your OC and staff team would recommend you in the first place - you don’t like them, and they don’t like you.
its time to take a deep breath, get away from the problem, try something new - whether thats a new life outside the ACO or a different Sqn in a different sector, possibly even a different wing - and then make informed decisions about whats best for you.
I think Angus is absolutely right; go and do something away from your current Sqn, the whole tone of your messages across a few threads smacks of disharmony and poor leadership, and you are extremely unlikely to be in a position whereby you can do anything about it. Regardless of your feelings towards the cadets, you have to remember that they are a transient population, the staff and therefore you, will be at that Sqn for a lot longer.
We often bemoan those who go straight from cadet to adult unformed service as being too insular, narrow minded or limited in their outlook and indeed there are many to whom that will apply (there are also many who are not like that I should hasten to add). But, it will do you no harm at all in later life to have experienced a few more things other than the ACO. If you want to ‘give something back’, try another youth organisation; Scouts or your Local Authority. You will undoubtedly bring some different ideas back to the ACO should that be what you later decide, which should go even a small way towards reducing our current belief that we’re always right and what we do is the best way to do everything! If you decide to stay with another organisation, great, they win and youth wins overall, so in the big picture, it really doesn’t matter.
You lot are the very reason we are short of adult volunteers.
Why would you discourage a cadet (Who judging by other posts has stuck it out at a rubbish unit) from entering the organisation as an adult?
Yes I agree with the move to another unit, particularly given the OPs other posts, but I would never ever discourage someone from joining as an adult volunteer.
To the OP. If you’re going to struggle to get through to your current sqn staff team then I suggest getting in touch with your wing personnel/staff development officer (if you have one) or via your sector commander. Failing that just speak to a staff member from another unit that you trust.
With regards to the route that you want to do. If you like D&D and marching about then perhaps SNCO is the route for you, I don’t know you so I wouldn’t like to make a recommendation but remember its your path, listen to those who’s opinion you value but ultimately make your own decision on the route you want to take!
Good luck and remember that being a staff member is very different than being a cadet, however it is very rewarding! Make sure you pop back here and let us know how it goes.
unfortunately dress, drill and discipline are a strong point of mine and i enjoy these![/quote]
i completely understand this and the reason i decided to start down the SNCO route. if you are still passionate about it then continue in that role, but remember the role of Sgt (ATC) is very different to CFS/CWO despite the apparent similarities so it wont all be “Drill NCO”
when i timed out my paperwork went straight in for uniform but it still took 9 months to get processed and jump through the various hoops.
i appreciate the time i had a a CI but doesnt mean i would have stayed being one longer.
MattB and others will indicate that they went straight into uniform and they dont see the advantage in doing so.
however you cant miss what you didnt have.
did i enjoy my time as an CI? yes…but with a big BUT, i did not enjoy having to step back so much…and if nothing else proved to me that uniform was the route to go. i would never have been happy as a CI long term and the 9 months i was showed me that.
in terms of moving Squadrons DO IT!
at least 3 months, ideally 6months or more.
I was a Cadet on the same Squadron for 4.5 years…and then next 4.5 years i was on four Sqns in four Wings in three regions.
i am not suggesting to do the same, my work took me that way, but it showed me a different view of Squadron life.
on paper we all do the same thing on parade nights, but how we do them differ completely.
i was in an inner city Squadron for a year which was eye opening for a country bumkin like me, they operated out of a TA building which was quite different to the Spooner hut i had as a Cadet.
in total have been in three Spooner huts, and all of them different despite the obvious same starting point.
it showed me what was good in one Sqn doesnt always fit in another…
i would by no means recommend the route i have gone through, and certainly wouldnt advise staying a CI longer than you want…but that doesnt mean you just treat it as a stepping stone into uniform.
it is its own role and position of its own right. and a unique one. explore it and appreciate it…there will be a time when you will be talking to a CI and you can say you have been there and no the situation.
If you’re 100% sure that you want to go uniform but don’t know whether to go SNCO or commission, then I’d suggest going SNCO at first as you can always commission later, whereas going the other way is rather more complicated!
It’s one of the main reasons I’d advise ex-cadets to get away from their old units, even if they’re happy there.
I didn’t - although I did later move units after a couple of years as an officer - and if I was to advise my 19YO self I’d definitely say change. My time away helped in a number of ways (primarily in getting new perspectives and becoming less insular) but it would have made a clean break from cadet to CFAV much easier if I’d done it at day 0.
I disagree massively. The reason why the ACO and arguably any cadet organisation is short of adult staff/CI’s because of attitudes of the staff and cadets. Granted not all but there are some absolute toilets.
The main reason I see for this is because people get sucked into the world of ACO and all they know is, cadets, cadets, cadets. They dont know anything else.
Break away from the ACO. Its a youthclub to instill good principles to build on with life experience. But you need to get out and forge your own way.
Now I dont mean join up etc etc. If you dont want to join the Forces then fair one. But go away go and get that life experience.
I am glad I did, I went and served, been all over the world, from the Arctic to the Desert to the jungle. and now thinking of joining the ACO, whats holding me back is the stinking attitudes of some of the staff and cadets (the sqn I would like to help though is thankfully one of the best sqns I have seen and it really is all about the cadets and the staff dont make it into their own little mini Airforce.)
The cadet organisation is a laughing stock to the adult forces, harsh but true. Maybe both sides need to change attitudes and grow up a bit, and realise that its to inspire the youth.
Staff need to realise its not the hitler youth, its a youth club with discipline and uniform.
Cadets need to realise that it isnt Britians last line of defence or some kind of call of duty rubbish or some arm of the Forces.
Its a place to learn. And ultimately have fun.
So advice to any cadet who is too old(not time out, its not the Forces) is to move on, you have had the starter. Its time to start tasting the other dishes.
I actually agree with some of The Rear Admiral’s points, mainly that doing something else can help make you a more rounded individual, give you other skills and help you realise there is more to life than just cadet stuff (although it doesn’t seem like it).
It sounds like you’ve already made up your mind TheLastOne. If you really want to go straight in to uniform then do it. We can advise, guide and offer opinions but no one can make that decision for you.
Start now, and as steve said you’ll probably have a bit of time as a CI anyway due to paperwork hold ups.
Remember to take time for yourself, it’s not all about putting stuff back.
My advice is to have time as a CI. Take a step back and learn that this organisation is a whole different kettle of fish once you leave as a cadet.
It also gives you flexibility which uniformed staff don’t have, but keeps you involved much better than going cold turkey.
Also, as a CI you will see more clearly, having an outside perspective so to speak, where you fit in, where you think that is now, may not be the case in a few months. CIs can still help with drill & Discipline. Just in different ways. For instance, by helping to instruct the cadet NCOs in teaching and taking drill, rather than doing it yourself.
I was a CI for 2 1/2 years before commissioning, I can safely say that I hated it. But, given the choice I wouldn’t go back and commission quicker, I learnt a hell of a lot in those 2 years, most of all that I was not ready to go straight from CWO into uniform.
In either event, absolutely move squadrons. It’s not just the cadets who won’t treat you differently, it’s often the staff as well.
A little harsh I feel Leeroy. Several other threads on here have discussed appointing uniformed adult staff of both flavours straight from cadet and it has been said several times that we run the risk of either the Organisation burning them out by giving them too much responsibility too soon, or they themselves fail to make the necessary transition from cadet to adult staff.
I would much rather have staff who are ‘fit for purpose’ (but that doesn’t mean we can drop them straight into high-pressure positions either), who understand what they are letting themselves in for, who are ready to accept the responsibility commensurate with their rank and who have experience of life outside of the incestuous ACO cocoon.
