Interesting thought Incy but I’m not sure of your rationale. I already have a long-service medal from a previous life but after the requisite number of years baby-sitting other people’s children and providing a myriad opportunities for them, I for one believe that this medal is well-earned.
As per a previous post of mine, I said that my application had not been received at HQAC. I was wrong as today, I was handed a copy of the rejection which states:
[I]“This officer is not yet entitled to the CFM. Using his VR(T) record, he qualifies on 27 Feb 16. His previous service cannot be counted as he did not hold SNCO\commissioned status”[/I]
This was signed by a member of HQAC Personnel Management. I was intrigued as to the “not holding SNCO\commissioned status” bit in previous service so I reviewed the eligibility criteria. As I thought, there’s no mention of having to hold SNCO\commissioned status in previous service as all it says is [I]"service up to a maximum of three years as a commissioned officer or in the ranks, of (volunteer reserves or in regular forces of the UK).[/I]
Fancy that - Personnel Management, who are responsible for confirming eligibility for the CFM, not knowing (or apparently) understanding, the eligibility criteria.
Service as a CI has never counted towards CFM service. CFM service is a uniform medal. CIs can achieve their own certificate of service for years served.
I don’t think anyone has mentioned CI service here? Are you misunderstanding Gunner’s post perhaps?
He’s saying that HQAC have bounced his previous RAF Regt service because he wasn’t Commissioned/SNCO.
Utter polldarks!!
Perhaps it’s the same person who couldn’t work when I turned 18 having been given my date of birth… :?
[quote=“wdimagineer2b” post=19193]I don’t think anyone has mentioned CI service here? Are you misunderstanding Gunner’s post perhaps?
He’s saying that HQAC have bounced his previous RAF Regt service because he wasn’t Commissioned/SNCO.
[/quote]
Sorry, my mistake. Hazard of reading on iPhone whilst driving on the motorway and eating a bagel.
HQAC don’t like reading the JSP. Insulting as it is, sometimes it has to be pointed out to them in small words.
I don’t know I’m afraid. I didn’t bother to look at the name. The boss just said “You’re going to love this…”, gave me a look, and then said “I’ll telephone them.”
If that’s actually what it says then it’s incorrect.
JSP 814 is the governing publication and the 2011 edition contains the correct criteria (the previous edition contained errors with regards to continuity of service).
However, time as a CI of not more than three years does not count as a ‘break in service’.
[quote=“Gunner” post=19185]Interesting thought Incy but I’m not sure of your rationale.[/quote]No rational beyond my dislike of the concept of a LS&GC medal for youth work volunteers
I don’t know I’m afraid. I didn’t bother to look at the name. The boss just said “You’re going to love this…”, gave me a look, and then said “I’ll telephone them.”
If that’s actually what it says then it’s incorrect.
JSP 814 is the governing publication and the 2011 edition contains the correct criteria (the previous edition contained errors with regards to continuity of service).
However, time as a CI of not more than three years does not count as a ‘break in service’.
(The bad grammar is as quoted).[/quote]
I took the term aggregated to mean amounting to a whole, ie added to the other time spent in uniform before and after. I had to wait approx 10 months between ageing out as CWO and being commissioned. Not sure if that time would count. Going to stick the form in when I’m 30 and see what shakes loose. By the sound of it, the extra year between applying and getting the medal will cover the CI period anyway.
What they mean is that the uniform service either side of CI can be combined.
It used to be that becoming a CI was a ‘break in service’ and as such any previous qualifying service beforehand was lost.
That was a bit like saying "You’re a CI now? Well FU!"
So they very sensibly changed it so that although it can’t be counted (as the CFM is awarded for uniformed service as on Officer/WO/SNCO/Senior Rate) it is no longer a break provided it doesn’t last more than 3 years.
So provided you went from CWO to CI to Commission you can add your over 18 cadet service to your commissioned service.
So, having just looked up the form, I’m going to ask some bone questions about how to fill it in.
Do I just list my cadet service as ‘ATC OR’, then just list RAFVR(T) service afterwards (ignoring the 4 months as a CI whilst the admin chain caught up, given your post above)?
I assume my CWO-ness terminated on my 22nd birthday, but I can’t be sure. Any way to check, or doesn’t it matter? Should I justy best-guess and let HQAC work it out (although that doesn’t sound like a robust plan given Gunner’s experience!).
Cadet Service, start date when you turned 18 and end date when you aged out at 22.
CI Service - list it but put no time towards the award, I think I even highlighted the para of the regulations on mine (mine was 18 months or so)
Adult Uniformed Service, start date should be on your records and should cover 8 full years in addition to the 4 years above.
Mine went through last year like this without any problems.
I did pretty much what arl did.
I listed it all but put 0 for qualifying periods for my CI service.
If I were to do it again I’d make it abundantly clear. Where I wrote “cadet service” assuming that those people tasked with such things would check my date of birth (which someone at HQAC had written on the form in red), I would instead write “Cadet service over 18”.
I didn’t realise there was a Cadet Forces Medal?
I guess I’m not fully understanding the criteria though. I served as a cadet from my 18th to just short of my 21st birthday back in 1986 prior to leaving and joining the Army. I did my full 22 year service obtaining my LS&GCM after 15 years. I then joined the ACO as a CI. I’m now just in uniform and would love to know if I have any service “in the bank” for the CFM?
It’s a shame it’s not made a little more clear!!
The Cadet 18+ element sounds right, Plt Off Prune’s on the nail with 2-and-a-bit years.
Your overall 22yrs ‘break’ in service is covered by the detail below. Note the important factor about not being away from the Cadet Forces for longer than 12 months before and after your regular service began and ended.
And equally-importantly (the bit that Gunner was unhappy about them missing), the qualifying service during regular service:
[quote][i]d. Service, up to a maximum of three years, as a commissioned officer or in the ranks, of the Volunteer Reserve Forces of the UK, including the OTC, University Naval Units and University Air Squadrons, provided that such service shall precede service in the Cadet Forces and that it shall not have been recognised by award of the Volunteer Reserves Service Medal or any of the awards preceding that medal.
e. Service, up to a maximum of three years, as a commissioned officer or in the ranks, in the Regular Forces of the UK, which has not counted towards the award of any other long service award. Full time service to a maximum of three years subsequent to the award of another long service award may be counted.[/i][/quote]
…which looks to be 3 additional years out of the 7 years you served after receiving the LS&GC, until you completed your 22.
So, it could be that you’re already at the 5.9yrs point, and nearly half-way to your 12yrs entitlement.
