Cadet expansion programme CCF unit closure

"Hey guys, there’s a ccf section that really needs peoples help. The Woodroffe school CCF is getting shut, as the head there doesn’t want to keep it going. It’s not my CCF, but I know these guys as we met at an annual camp, and they a great lot, and really nice people. Please could you help by signing a petition to try and keep it open, any signature will really help them.

Thanks in advance"

This has just popped up on facebook. If schools see no benefit from hosting a CCF unit and the head wants to close it down:

A) what happens to the cadets?
B) Where you have had ATC Squadrons closed, will they be re-established in the area
C) Where does this leave the CAC and her acolytes who have closed or co-located Squadrons close to these CCF units on the grounds of numbers?


I regard this sort of event as above my pay grade. But anything that can be done to ensure these cadets end up in SCC/ACF/ATC rather than having no cadet experience is clearly a good idea.

Indeed it is, but with the closure/merger/co-location of Squadrons that chance is lessening. The CAC hung her hat on CEP and it maybe starting to unravel.

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I think that the issue is that there is no Lyme Regis squadron - probably why it was chosen as a CEP location. Nearest unit is probably Honiton.

But this shows a big Achilles Heel with CEP - it seems to be at the whim of schools, where the leadership can change and pull the rug out from under.

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Which it would appear is half an hour away. Same problem with 2200 DF in Saddleworth. it was being closed down unitl the new academy school development failed to get planning permission, suddenly its been reversed for two years. Add 2+2 and get 5. Closing a unit and using a CEP CCF unit as replacement but that only caters for pupils of that school, the rest have either to travel or give up.

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We made this point about change of headmaster/mistress when this was first presented at a COs conference, along with reduced opportunities in the wider community if the community ACF and ATC units were closed or even merged. The bloke doing the chat, said it was unlikely to happen as the government was funding the school programme, schools would love it and staffing wouldn’t be a problem.

On a similar vein, three local scout groups merged last year, due to staffing problems, I was told at the weekend the single group is likely to close due to numbers. The 3 groups had a combined size of 17 and they now have 4, after starting at 11. Parents have been pushing for the old groups to start up again, but the staffing is still a problem.

I know that HQAC like to play number games, but unless they want to be out of a job, unlikely now senior roles are FTRS, act in haste repent at leisure, on a lot less money.


Was the bloke making the comments FTRS or RFCA with an agenda to empire build or incapable of grasping school politics. I’m surprised that the NUT haven’t been screaming at the baracades about military indoctrination of school children.

School management changes and when the CCF is discontinued has anybody asked the question of what happens tthe most important people, the cadets?

Maybe as a country we should be screaming at the barricades about them!!

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Majority of NUT like most union memebers are only in them for indemnity insurance as I am and representation. They no interest in politics.

You’ve obviously met him or one like him. The most funny thing was, he hadn’t or couldn’t have realised who his audience was.

The only reason to be in a union is in case it starts going wrong at work.

I worked for the NHS for 38 years, met too many snake oil merchants in my time.

Statement on the website puts it down to being unable to staff it anymore after 2 out of the 3 staff jacked it and no one else wanted to take it on, leaves 100 cadets over the 3 sections. That’s a massive blow

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Three staff for a 100+ cadets? How does that cover minimum staffing levels?

If you had 100 plus cadets in a community unit and only 3 staff, there would be big questions, not to mention extremely burnt out staff and I doubt you’d be able to tick HQAC’s boxes,

Do teachers get a TLR for being staff for cadet units?


Looking at their extra curricular timetable it says that CCF is 1¾ hours per week. Is that typical?
The average ATC community squadron will easily do 2½ times that a week.

How do CCF units do all the things ATC squadrons are expected to do, unless things are done that are hidden in schools and done at other times, not really available to ATC squadrons, as neither staff or cadets are ‘tied’ to the squadron in the way cadets and staff would be at a boarding school. How does “boarding school” CCF relate to non-boarding school CCF, in terms of time allotted and staffing as they would be subject to cadets and staff going home every day and unlikely to do anything at weekends, unless the school staff were getting paid.

Was that the CCF or teaching at the school or teaching altogether?

In the last 2 years we have had an almost wholesale change of teaching staff in some depts. and for the next academic year it looks like a lot of agency / supply teachers coming in as there are a number of teaching posts still not filled and being advertised, with a Sep 18 or Jan 19 start. More likely the latter. So if a school was operating a CCF, they would be needing to offer an increment for a teacher to take on an extra-curricular after school activity which is as demanding as running a cadet unit, in the non-private schools. This would be on top of the normal things they are required to do, even if their teaching load was reduced. Teachers do get well paid in the grand scheme of things, but when you see the crap kids and parents give them and all the ‘little bits’ they do and then the almost constant change of focus from heads and or government, putting something like being staff for a CCF unit, has no appeal. Well other than for PE teachers, but they are taking school teams hither and dither during the day or after school.

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Sounds like three members of teaching staff covering, but doesn’t say who else was involved. Info was within this update…

I saw a report on the BBC news this morning, where a school has had to make 14 teachers and others redundant due to funding problems. As a result a number of activities and after school clubs and groups had been lost. So where would a cadet unit sit if a headmaster or headmistress is faced with what must be a loss of classes and teachers more stretched. I would suspect they wouldn’t even countenance it and if they had one as seen in the school above teachers are not crawling over themselves to do it and that’s in a private school and not a public comprehensive.

Are CCF instructors are still volunteers?

Do they get extra £££ in their salary for taking on the role? is it worked into their contracts?
I could imagine that in a private school with the extra funds they can permit the above, but is a State school the same?

Under CEP funding is suposed to come through LIBOR monies, that has to run out before long.

Teachers will probably not apply for jobs where CCF manaagement is a requirement unless they want topolish their CVs.

So much to write here but no time…

most CCF instructors are ‘volunteers’ in name only - they do it as part of their extracurricular contribution to the school and if it wasn’t CCF, it would be another ‘club’
not always true though, there are increasing numbers of pure volunteers from outside - and that’s particularly true of CEP
only the best funded schools can afford to pay extra and usually that’s only extra days for the SSI, and some sort of allowance for the Contingent Commander (who can easily do 15-20 hours a week in a large CCF)