LOL! We don’t to Battle of Britain either.
ATC Sunday and remembrance - we don’t do BOB either
We’re going to try a formation dinner event this February, rather than our traditional Christmas dining in.
we had a party with a massive take-away, pub-singer Kareoke and alternative awards.
oddly enough, my OC saw little point giving up a precious Sunday to stand in the rain in February listening to some god-botherer (who, of course, we’d only see once a year…) waffle about his Sky Fairy in order to ‘celebrate’ someone with a moustache signing a bit of paper.
we also had a summer weekend were we tried to get people from the Sqn doing as many ATC activities as possible - then we had a BBQ for the Sqn, parents, ex-cadets etc…
That sounds a better way to celebrate the organisation. I have never understood why we parade in the part of the year with the very worst and coldest weather.
I personally can’t see the problem with a church service parade for ATC Sunday, given it’s normally cold and or wet. Easy and quick to do, 45-60 minutes job done and home for lunch. If it goes on much more than 45 minutes you’ve not briefed them properly. Even the event this Sunday is done and dusted in that timeframe this fits for most commemoration parades.
Doing other things in secular format has the potential to drag it out longer than it needs to be, more messing around organising it and IMO you tend to lose focus / purpose. A parade / service focusses the mind on why you’re there and given most teenagers have the attention span of goldfish unless it involves pixels, it can’t be a bad thing.
The dinners I’ve been to where the speeches go on and on and on and by the end you’ve lost the will to live.
But why are you there?
45minutes for a parade!!! I wish!!!
the parade this sunday, meet cadets about 0915, home for about 1300
that’s if I don’t go back to the TA centre,
Whislt I agree the ATC sunday parade is a lot of rubbish, I hate the Battle of Britain more :mad: :mad:
This hatred I think is due to the RAFA branch who want the cadets there to collect for them,
fill the church then don’t want to know them any other time unless they need something.
yeah I know the work RAFA, do history etc, but DO NOT treat the cadets like something you scrape off
your shoe. a bit of politeness goes a long way
But why are you there?[/quote]
Surely why you’re there be it in church, on a parade or bowling alley is obvious. The shorter the event - bish, bash, bosh and home, plus having it in church apart from mentioning it to the padre/vicar and getting their agreement, you have nothing more to do, other than turn up, OK a PIPE but that’s it. Organising other things to achieve the same aim, is just aggro that I can do without. I’ve been to a couple of Armed Forces Days and after 2-3 hours once the march past has happened, it all gets a bit can we go yet.
[quote=“big g” post=21812]45minutes for a parade!!! I wish!!!
the parade this sunday, meet cadets about 0915, home for about 1300
that’s if I don’t go back to the TA centre, [/quote]
WTF are you doing until 1300? The key part is between 1058 & 1102, depending how the Act is worked. We meet c.0930 just to make sure the cadets have had something to eat (cakes of some sort) and a drink. The parade marches off at 1015 done and dusted by 11:35, if we march back to the start and home not long after. The bit around the War Memorial lasts 40 minutes.
[quote=“big g” post=21812]Whislt I agree the ATC sunday parade is a lot of rubbish, I hate the Battle of Britain more :mad: :mad:
This hatred I think is due to the RAFA branch who want the cadets there to collect for them,
fill the church then don’t want to know them any other time unless they need something.
yeah I know the work RAFA, do history etc, but DO NOT treat the cadets like something you scrape off your shoe. a bit of politeness goes a long way[/quote]
Talk to them. Do they have a club or is it just a branch? Our RAFA used to be a bit offish, as you describe, but now the cadets are treated really well. They pay for pizza nights each year and allow us to use the club for socials. All it took was speaking to them and asking.
[quote=“big g” post=21812]45minutes for a parade!!! I wish!!!
the parade this sunday, meet cadets about 0915, home for about 1300
that’s if I don’t go back to the TA centre, [/quote]
WTF are you doing until 1300? The key part is between 1058 & 1102, depending how the Act is worked. We meet c.0930 just to make sure the cadets have had something to eat (cakes of some sort) and a drink. The parade marches off at 1015 done and dusted by 11:35, if we march back to the start and home not long after. The bit around the War Memorial lasts 40 minutes.
to answer…
Cadets meet at sqns for inspection then transported to the parade assembly along with all the other service’s just outside the city centre, the parade starts marching off 950 for a 25minute march to the memorial. then arrange in the square, await the “civilian” element of the parade to form up as they don’t march nor do they tell the time. then the dignitaries. the full parade will be ready for the march on of the veterans for 1040.
as you say the service is over by 1145-ish then the march off… :whistle: got to wait for the Veterans (no issue they deserve/ earned the right to be there) but then the BB, scouts, the police and Fire service to march past (who need to be announced and march individually!!) then the latest craze the veterans on their motorbikes to do a drive past?? by this time we are now about 1200 then we start the main parade march off back to the assembly point slightly longer route. once back the cadets are to return back to the Sqn for dispersal not the city centre.
I think you have got confuesd, this topic was talking about ATC Sunday (and then BoB parade) NOT
Remembrance Parade…
BTW we do ATC Sunday … March - Church - Tea and stickies in our part of the world but no BoB parade
Remembrance we cover poppy ceromonies at 2 cemetries with war graves locally and 2 parades one in the moring and one in the afternoon…
So, it seems by most if not all of these remarks we should:
- Forget the History and Sacrifice of the RAF by not having formal parades
- Ensure that whatever happens, never believe in God and depend on our own moral compass’s,which by the state of the world today would be somehow better?
Interesting, considering that we allegedly improve the lives of young people.
Wow, must have missed somewthing here. Always done ATC Sunday parade, BoB Church Parade and Remembrance Parade!!
ATC Sunday sees eight squadrons get together in one of the sector’s locations, church service and formal parade, dignatory inspects parade, then somewhere for tea and biscuits. Great recruiting tool. 200+ cadets plus staff on parade.
BoB Parade sees both local squadrons on parade in the city; as above basically, parade, inspection, service, and sometimes we get invited to RAFA Club (but not very often)
Remembrance Parade sees both squadrons forming up with veterans, serving military personnel, service in the Cathedral, inspection and march through city.
[quote=“blueforyou” post=22201]So, it seems by most if not all of these remarks we should:
- Forget the History and Sacrifice of the RAF by not having formal parades
- Ensure that whatever happens, never believe in God and depend on our own moral compass’s,which by the state of the world today would be somehow better?
Interesting, considering that we allegedly improve the lives of young people.[/quote]
Uh, no? ATC Sunday doesn’t in any way improve our knowledge of the history of the RAF. It’s a celebration of the formation of the ATC. Not sure where you got this.
And 2, this organisation should be areligious. It cannot truly be accessible to all whilst it remains in the hands of the CofE church. By removing any religion we open the possibility of other faiths attending, and not bogging people down in unnecessary and frankly boring scripture. As an example, I gave all my cadets the choice if they wanted to attend the church after remembrance day. Not 1 wanted to, despite me reassuring them it was OK to and that I would go with them (something I’m prepared to do if they want to access it, despite being staunchly atheist myself).
This is derailing the thread so I’ll stop, but I’m willing to bet you have either a vested interest in your local church or are a padre.
I’m happy to parade with the regulars if they want us to and if they are having a parade. I’ll be on remembrance parades and on armed forces day because those are what we have up here. I’m not so keen on us inventing a BoB parade on our own when the RAF aren’t running one and I certainly don’t think that anniversary of the formation of a youth group reason enough to hold a parade.
Nothing here is preventing people from believing in gods or going to churches, though personally I would discourage it.
I am very much against it being the de-facto state of affairs that having a parade automatically includes involving the clergy ruining it for the large number of those who hold opposing views on religion, especially when it discourages cadets and staff from attending the whole event. If a church bit is included for those who are into church bits then fine but when the church bit engulfs the whole event then something needs to change.
And please cut it with the assertion that superstitions somehow hold the monopoly on valid morality: it is demonstrably untrue.
Ok Sir , consider it “cut” as you have ordered. Everything is OK, I obviously got it wrong.
RAFA have always organised our BoB Parade.
I’ve seen a big ATC Sunday Parade in London with service in St Clement Danes and loads of scrambled egg wearers attending. So hardly regarded as an insignificant date, surely?
I was brought up as a sproggy cadet (reinforced by dad and uncle) that it is the military way of doing things (stand around, bit of a march, sit or stand probably with religious content, followed by bit of a march and home for tea and medals) ergo part of what we are part of. People on here and generally bang on about doing things the military way / tradition and get bent all out shape if someone’s uniform or actions / appearance doesn’t fit some militaristic idyll, but a number of these seem quite happy to say I don’t want or see why I should do this bit that bit, especially church parades or a parade that has a religious content. I find standing around on parades, of any type, less than interesting but it’s part of what we puport to be and what people probably expect of us, so whether I like the idea or not, if I’m able to attend it’s not an option, I attend. Throwing religion into it or I don’t know why we’d do it, as a reason not to is IMO a cop out.
As for the relgion side of it, I’ve been to weddings in hotels and several different religious persausions and doesn’t mean I believe or become what they are doing, pretty much lke attending a church parade. Believe me they are not there to convert you. I feel you should get married in a church, but doesn’t mean I don’t go, as that would be churlish and childish.
The over-riding thing IMO is by not having cadets out there in uniform, is continuing to make us a well kept secret. When I took over my current sqn there was a sense of Air who when I spoke to people locally. The sqn did loads of things but were invisible in the community, apart from Poppy collecting and the Remembrance Parade and even then. So I embarked on a process of getting the cadets seen and as a result the CWC started doing things and found that it was enjoyable, rather than just having a meeting once every few weeks. After our first ATC Sunday service I was approached by a chap from the local Rotary and lady from The Lions, full of praise for the cadets hey presto £750 in the funds. No grovelling or similar actions to get something. A local Cllr suggested the Mayor’s Charity Fund, which we got £900 towards AT kit. We now get donations and apply for grants every couple of years. These people were just members of the congregation and not invited especially. The local church allows free use of their hall for parties and so on. By attending the BoB Parade we have had talks by a couple of the old bomber boys in the Branch, which were fascinating, as well as increasing the profile of the sqn and ATC in general, as again not so much Air who but where are you was the general sense among those attending
[quote=“glass half empty 2” post=22246]I was brought up as a sproggy cadet (reinforced by dad and uncle) that it is the military way of doing things (stand around, bit of a march, sit or stand probably with religious content, followed by bit of a march and home for tea and medals) ergo part of what we are part of. People on here and generally bang on about doing things the military way / tradition and get bent all out shape if someone’s uniform or actions / appearance doesn’t fit some militaristic idyll, but a number of these seem quite happy to say I don’t want or see why I should do this bit that bit, especially church parades or a parade that has a religious content. I find standing around on parades, of any type, less than interesting but it’s part of what we puport to be and what people probably expect of us, so whether I like the idea or not, if I’m able to attend it’s not an option, I attend. Throwing religion into it or I don’t know why we’d do it, as a reason not to is IMO a cop out. [/quote]We do military stuff because we are a uniformed organisation.
We aren’t a religious organisation, so why would we do church stuff?
[quote=“MattB” post=22261]]We do military stuff because we are a uniformed organisation.
We aren’t a religious organisation, so why would we do church stuff?[/quote]
But aren’t parades etc with a religious content, be that in a building for worship or out in the open a part of military “stuff”? I don’t think anyone said we are religious organisation or doing loads of church stuff. If by loads it means a couple of Remembrance, ATC Sunday and maybe BoB Parade, then you have a very skewed idea of loads.
military parades used to involve wearing a leather collar, apparently the discomfort of wearing this thing was not only part of the experience, but was removed entirely if you stood up straight enough…
oddly, we’ve decided it was, err… rubbish, and we stopped doing it. ‘thats what we’ve always done’ isn’t a reason.