So, it seems by most if not all of these remarks we should:
Interesting, considering that we allegedly improve the lives of young people.
Wow, must have missed somewthing here. Always done ATC Sunday parade, BoB Church Parade and Remembrance Parade!!
ATC Sunday sees eight squadrons get together in one of the sector’s locations, church service and formal parade, dignatory inspects parade, then somewhere for tea and biscuits. Great recruiting tool. 200+ cadets plus staff on parade.
BoB Parade sees both local squadrons on parade in the city; as above basically, parade, inspection, service, and sometimes we get invited to RAFA Club (but not very often)
Remembrance Parade sees both squadrons forming up with veterans, serving military personnel, service in the Cathedral, inspection and march through city.
[quote=“blueforyou” post=22201]So, it seems by most if not all of these remarks we should:
Interesting, considering that we allegedly improve the lives of young people.[/quote]
Uh, no? ATC Sunday doesn’t in any way improve our knowledge of the history of the RAF. It’s a celebration of the formation of the ATC. Not sure where you got this.
And 2, this organisation should be areligious. It cannot truly be accessible to all whilst it remains in the hands of the CofE church. By removing any religion we open the possibility of other faiths attending, and not bogging people down in unnecessary and frankly boring scripture. As an example, I gave all my cadets the choice if they wanted to attend the church after remembrance day. Not 1 wanted to, despite me reassuring them it was OK to and that I would go with them (something I’m prepared to do if they want to access it, despite being staunchly atheist myself).
This is derailing the thread so I’ll stop, but I’m willing to bet you have either a vested interest in your local church or are a padre.
I’m happy to parade with the regulars if they want us to and if they are having a parade. I’ll be on remembrance parades and on armed forces day because those are what we have up here. I’m not so keen on us inventing a BoB parade on our own when the RAF aren’t running one and I certainly don’t think that anniversary of the formation of a youth group reason enough to hold a parade.
Nothing here is preventing people from believing in gods or going to churches, though personally I would discourage it.
I am very much against it being the de-facto state of affairs that having a parade automatically includes involving the clergy ruining it for the large number of those who hold opposing views on religion, especially when it discourages cadets and staff from attending the whole event. If a church bit is included for those who are into church bits then fine but when the church bit engulfs the whole event then something needs to change.
And please cut it with the assertion that superstitions somehow hold the monopoly on valid morality: it is demonstrably untrue.
Ok Sir , consider it “cut” as you have ordered. Everything is OK, I obviously got it wrong.
RAFA have always organised our BoB Parade.
I’ve seen a big ATC Sunday Parade in London with service in St Clement Danes and loads of scrambled egg wearers attending. So hardly regarded as an insignificant date, surely?
I was brought up as a sproggy cadet (reinforced by dad and uncle) that it is the military way of doing things (stand around, bit of a march, sit or stand probably with religious content, followed by bit of a march and home for tea and medals) ergo part of what we are part of. People on here and generally bang on about doing things the military way / tradition and get bent all out shape if someone’s uniform or actions / appearance doesn’t fit some militaristic idyll, but a number of these seem quite happy to say I don’t want or see why I should do this bit that bit, especially church parades or a parade that has a religious content. I find standing around on parades, of any type, less than interesting but it’s part of what we puport to be and what people probably expect of us, so whether I like the idea or not, if I’m able to attend it’s not an option, I attend. Throwing religion into it or I don’t know why we’d do it, as a reason not to is IMO a cop out.
As for the relgion side of it, I’ve been to weddings in hotels and several different religious persausions and doesn’t mean I believe or become what they are doing, pretty much lke attending a church parade. Believe me they are not there to convert you. I feel you should get married in a church, but doesn’t mean I don’t go, as that would be churlish and childish.
The over-riding thing IMO is by not having cadets out there in uniform, is continuing to make us a well kept secret. When I took over my current sqn there was a sense of Air who when I spoke to people locally. The sqn did loads of things but were invisible in the community, apart from Poppy collecting and the Remembrance Parade and even then. So I embarked on a process of getting the cadets seen and as a result the CWC started doing things and found that it was enjoyable, rather than just having a meeting once every few weeks. After our first ATC Sunday service I was approached by a chap from the local Rotary and lady from The Lions, full of praise for the cadets hey presto £750 in the funds. No grovelling or similar actions to get something. A local Cllr suggested the Mayor’s Charity Fund, which we got £900 towards AT kit. We now get donations and apply for grants every couple of years. These people were just members of the congregation and not invited especially. The local church allows free use of their hall for parties and so on. By attending the BoB Parade we have had talks by a couple of the old bomber boys in the Branch, which were fascinating, as well as increasing the profile of the sqn and ATC in general, as again not so much Air who but where are you was the general sense among those attending
[quote=“glass half empty 2” post=22246]I was brought up as a sproggy cadet (reinforced by dad and uncle) that it is the military way of doing things (stand around, bit of a march, sit or stand probably with religious content, followed by bit of a march and home for tea and medals) ergo part of what we are part of. People on here and generally bang on about doing things the military way / tradition and get bent all out shape if someone’s uniform or actions / appearance doesn’t fit some militaristic idyll, but a number of these seem quite happy to say I don’t want or see why I should do this bit that bit, especially church parades or a parade that has a religious content. I find standing around on parades, of any type, less than interesting but it’s part of what we puport to be and what people probably expect of us, so whether I like the idea or not, if I’m able to attend it’s not an option, I attend. Throwing religion into it or I don’t know why we’d do it, as a reason not to is IMO a cop out. [/quote]We do military stuff because we are a uniformed organisation.
We aren’t a religious organisation, so why would we do church stuff?
[quote=“MattB” post=22261]]We do military stuff because we are a uniformed organisation.
We aren’t a religious organisation, so why would we do church stuff?[/quote]
But aren’t parades etc with a religious content, be that in a building for worship or out in the open a part of military “stuff”? I don’t think anyone said we are religious organisation or doing loads of church stuff. If by loads it means a couple of Remembrance, ATC Sunday and maybe BoB Parade, then you have a very skewed idea of loads.
military parades used to involve wearing a leather collar, apparently the discomfort of wearing this thing was not only part of the experience, but was removed entirely if you stood up straight enough…
oddly, we’ve decided it was, err… rubbish, and we stopped doing it. ‘thats what we’ve always done’ isn’t a reason.
If you worked on the “we have always done it that way, so let’s scrap it” argument, using the same logic, you could do away with Trooping of the Colour, or other minor parade events.
You cannot obliterate all the aspects of what started as an historical event. By all means incorporate some modern elements, especially if they work well with local circumstances, but retain the the core.
[quote=“MikeJenvey” post=22269]If you worked on the “we have always done it that way, so let’s scrap it” argument, using the same logic, you could do away with Trooping of the Colour, or other minor parade events.[/quote]That’s completely facile - the point is not that we should automatically scrap everything that we used to do, simply that “we’ve always done it that way” is a completely worthless argument.
Traditions are all fine and well but only if they can justify themselves in the contemporary time.