Like a good novel…
I kept hoping for a happy ending where the CivCom chairman was banged up in some Cuban jail somwhere…dissapointingly it didn’t come.
What a complete mess, caused by some bloke who seems unable to speak to people and then quote guff about human rights, when he’s been brought to book.
Unfortunately in the past I’ve had instances whereby some on the CWC think they can just spend the sqn funds how they see fit. The people who thought this were people who had been on a PTA. Luckily my then Wg Chairman and SWSO put them right, but not until things had practically got out of control. The 3 concerned didn’t like it and took their two patsies with them. At least it left people who didn’t argue the toss over every request for things and effectively blocking things and wanting to spend money on things they thought the sqn needed, which is where the conflict came in. They didn’t like the fact that I, due to the questions asked, completed a grant application and gave it to the Chairman and Treaurer to sign.
Then there are Civ Comms who think THEY run the squadron.
The biggest concern here is that the sqn may close completely. There does seem to be some drivel about putting someone in charge. I’ve known sqns and DFs run by WOs for up to 18 months, with no detriment to the unit, before they got an Officer in.
Who let you in? ;)[/quote]
Oh, I make an art form of sneaking past security these days 
I have to say, the movement of £75,000 from Sqn funds into a privately controlled fund outwith the ATC should be making whacking great alarm bells clang all round.
My reading of the FOI stuff was that the civcom chair had basically used the Sqn as a vehicle to set up this local fair, initially as a unit fundraiser but then it seems to have become an end in its own right.
This “Salmon Fund” seems to have been the civcom chairman’s means of getting his own way and building a new sqn HQ, after being told by the CoC that SHQs are publicly funded. By setting up a fund outside of the ATC’s control he could continue to raise funds with the stated intention of having a new building built, even though he’d been told “no” previously.
A change of staff at the unit (possibly? there was something about a new OC there) meant the new staff stepped back, said “hang on, running this fair is not a core activity and it is currently crowding out actual cadet activities” …
… and that seems to have aroused the wrath of the civcom chairman, who quite liked the idea of being in charge of a compliant sqn staff who’d do as they were told, hence the staff resignations, presumably because they tried to stand up to him. At this point it seems to have been escalated to Wing and Region, and that’s where it gets messy with nonsense about human rights, law and so forth.
The civcom chairman seems squarely at fault for all of this, in my opinion. If I was one of the parents at that sqn I’d want to know what the hell he was doing with the £75k that (presumably) is now under his sole control, and what portion of Sqn funds he was diverting into his private legal battle against everyone in a uniform within 50 miles of him.
The parents though are ALL members of the CivCom which is part of the complexity.
Though, this Mr Levey seems to be a real trouble maker.
The organization structure slide he created for their ‘parents presentation’ showed the Staff as being subserviant and responsible to to the CivCom. I think speaks volumes about their attitude.
It seems that the CivCom took their status within the excepted charity a little too far, forgetting that whilst they may control the funds for legal reasons, those funds are intended to support the chain of command in providing the ATC experience, and it’s not their place to work outside it.
They simply didn’t recognize any authority but their own and that of the Charities Commission, believing that their status as trustees of charity money trumps the command and control of the very organization that it is meant to support.
Worryingly, it appears that the legal outcome is that there was an element of truth in that. I can only hope that the updated regulations for CivComs will find some way of removing this extraneous ‘power’ from individual committees and bringing them into the chain of command.
It’s funny you mention that. During my CivCom difficulties I coined the term “PTA Syndrome” to describe that particular belief that the CivCom run the show and that the Sqn Staff are there to do their bidding.
My lot started out with much pettiness such as being unprepared to authorize the expenditure of £15 to buy a CD-RW drive for the PC. Despite my thorough explaination in person and hard-copy ‘idiots guide’ explaining it’s huge benefit to the unit.
Another occasion saw me making and supplying a Banner case to the squadron (this was done through my private company for supply and VAT purposes). Rather than accept an invoice for the £20 case (which was provided alongside quotes from 3 other companies proving mine to be the cheapest option, and which had been agreed by the OC) they demanded a full and exact breakdown of my production costs. Needless to say, they didn’t get it.
They just couldn’t bring themselves to give the OC proper authority to determine what is a necessary expenditure. These were all basic things. It’s not as though the staff were asking for £1000 of pounds for luxury items.
The next thing they set their sights on was selling the minibus and hiring vehicles rather than running our own SOV. Fortunately we were able to disuade them but once again it was a clear case of the CivCom pursuing their own power trip rather than looking at what was actually best for the unit.
In the end they tried to instigate a system whereby any expenditure would have be ‘put before them’ with the staff presenting a case which the CivCom would decide.
Fortunately a number of key individuals were removed from the committee and we now have a far more workable (but still unacceptable )system, whereby the CivCom do absolutely ■■■■■■-all, bar signing cheques and filing accounts.
The only fundraising in the past 4 or 5 years has been thanks to one officer filling grant applications, and from donations from local organizations such Round Table, Rotary, &c.
I read the entire FOI documentation with much interest, as an example of the kind of behaviour that I believe our CivCom were headed towards.
Thanks to my experiences of CivComs at 2 Squadrons over the past 18 years, I now have a deep-seated distrust of them.
This one thing that during my troubled period no one actually caught onto, which may have caused more problems.
I hope so to. I would like to see CWC’s brought into the CoC in a much more visible way and more directly accountable to sqn cdrs and Wing Chairmen more authority.
It never fails to amaze me how many COs at some point have problems with CWCs, feel completely powerless to do anything and don’t get any support from the higher levels of the organisation. I do at times wonder who’s side CWCs are on? People accuse Sqn Cdrs of being drunk with power, they are beginners compared to some Chairmen or whole committees.
Does anyone know how much notice is taken of the F60? When I first took over my current sqn, they hadn’t submitted one for 3 years, as I asked to see the last 5 years and current bank statements. I got two and the bank statements showed a very sorry state of affairs. I found out that the last treasurer had left 18 months before and the Chairman took over the role. The only problem was my children who were all in Junior school at the time, had better maths skills!! I have insisted that the F60 is done, and get really snotty if it’s not,by the end of June, to allow for the external check to be done.
A very sad state of affairs.
What’s worse though:- the civ com who are clearly in it for the wrong reasons or the ACO for allowing it to get to this point.
Nothing like airing your dirty linen in public.
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Take it from me for some CWC members it’s normal. Maybe not to this extent, but there are some who I’ve known are not backward in taking it outside the squadron.
[quote=“wdimagineer2b” post=7392]The only fundraising in the past 4 or 5 years has been thanks to one officer filling grant applications, and from donations from local organizations such Round Table, Rotary, &c.[/quote]Now that I have to say is the sort of thing that really grips my poo.
I wouldn’t actually mind having a civ com that were very protective of the unit funds if they were the ones who actually went out and earned the cash. But when it’s the unit staff doing all of the admin donkey work and the cadets on the ground, whilst the civ com raise nothing and just tell us that we can’t spend the unit’s funds…
Having read through all the documents released under the FOI it makes you wonder what other problems HQAC are having to deal. If they are constantly having to deal with idiots and situations like this no wonder things sometimes get lost or delayed or if comms sometimes get a bit strangled.
Also, when you see what is released under FOI, it does make you a bit more careful about exactly what you write in Sqn emails.
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I am a cadet sergeant at the sqn.
For the past 2 years this has been happening and it is heart breaking to see what has come of it in the end.
For two years cadets haven’t been told anything and kept in the dark while this has been happening, last Christmas I had enough and i had to speak out and try to put a end to it, it my report/email i made it clear that this is OUR squadron and we deserve the very best in what ever happens and that in everything that is spoken about or for every decision made we should be put first.
I requested the knowledge on everything that has happened in the last two years as we have the right to know, i got turned down. to see the best sqn in the wing and most likely in the whole of the aco to go from a “solid gold squadron” down to this. its the first time in history, and for anyone who has ever been involved in 863 will know we love making history.
I see one good thing that has come out of this suspension (surprisingly), is everyone coming together as one, the press outraged and everyone who has been involved in 863 as a staff member or a cadets coming back to help, all local squadrons standing up and speaking out, parents coming like a army to make a difference. 863 is the best sqn in the wing and Norfolk and Suffolk wing is nothing without us (who would win everything :cheer:), when they decided to temporary close our sqn they had no idea that 863 isnt just a number, its the bringing together of a community and the forming of a family. They may think were down but 863 is far from out.
I thank you all for your support as we need it and hopefully with the whole ACO, Region, Wing, reporters, parents, cadets, staff and supporting bodies in outrage. The truth will make itself know and we will be back open in due course.
Thank you
Whilst i don’t wish on anyone what has happened to your Squadron, cadets and staff, you need putting back in your box!
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You clearly have no purpose here and i clearly dont know why you are getting involved in this.
863 means the world to the people in it and this is tearing our lives apart.
I may need putting in a box but you my friend need putting in a asylum.
[quote=“Operation Nimrod” post=7418]Whilst i don’t wish on anyone what has happened to your Squadron, cadets and staff, you need putting back in your box![/quote]You are out of order, and the worse for hiding behind your moderator’s mask whilst being so.
It seems to me that the cadets at this squadron were failed by staff/civcom at all levels and I hold no ill for any cadet willing to stand up and say “enough!” You shoudl be ashamed for the Corps that it has come to this.
[quote=“incubus” post=7420][quote=“Operation Nimrod” post=7418]Whilst i don’t wish on anyone what has happened to your Squadron, cadets and staff, you need putting back in your box![/quote]You are out of order, and the worse for hiding behind your moderator’s mask whilst being so.
It seems to me that the cadets at this squadron were failed by staff/civcom at all levels and I hold no ill for any cadet willing to stand up and say “enough!” You shoudl be ashamed for the Corps that it has come to this.[/quote]
Couldnt have put it better myself, Cheers
I’m a cadet within this squadron
I’m sorry operation nimrod but you clearly have no clue to the current situation with our squadron, I have been part of the ATC for a year and a half and I’m glad I was able to be a part of the organisation with one of the best squadrons within the wing! It has upset many of us following this decision but we do not need to be put in a box.
Whilst the passion is great to see, and hats off to you for pushing the issue, comments like “Norfolk and Suffolk wing is nothing without us” are elitist and inflammatory. Without your Sqn N&S wing are… Still N&S wing albeit with one Sqn stood down. Others will come and others will go. Hopefully your Sqn will return and join the fold, but don’t overestimate your influence in the organisation as it can be disheartening to realise you are a very small player in a very large team. Above all, you are not “entitled” to a lot of things as you think you are. Only items of a personal nature (ie about you) are releasable.
You are a tool of the highest order. Get off your high horse. Unfortunately forum rules prohibit writing a suitable four letter word beginning in c that describes you and the attitude you’re displaying. Standing by for the anonymous mod clique to close ranks now…
I don’t know about Mods closing ranks, But I didn’t like the arrogant supremacist tone of SGY863’s comments either. Fair play he’s concerned about his unit, but there’s an attitude there which seems to say that he wouldn’t care if any squadron other than 863 had similar issues. It’s this sort of attitude, which so many people on here have decried time and time again from Flight Staff Cadets and QJLs, that the Corps doesn’t need.
If anything, SGY863’s comments now make me care less.
Topic trimmed. I do apologise, please continue…