Finally managed to speak to our local CCF yesterday after years of trying, and they’re being exceptionally helpful and welcoming of joint working.
We have a range, but no qualified staff at the moment. They have rifles and qualified staff but no range, so the obvious answer is combine and conquer.
However, as a CCF they have the .22 conversion kit for the L98A2 rather than any .22 rifles (which we have). Their cadets can train on and use it, so my question is can my ATC cadets do that? They’ll train and test our cadets, we’ll provide the range and potential training venue.
Are there any issues with that (I’m sure there are going to be some…)
I’ve asked several times about using ACF to train and test our cadets given the qualifications are the same now and it seems to get lost in a mist of admin.
You’d like to think as we’re all part of the same club essentially we could just play together.
I’ve got copies of their tickets but that’s not enough.
I just got a very real sense that it was ATC types being ATC types for no reason than being ATC types and fearing losing control of their little bit of the world. The ACF are more than happy to just do it.
As it’s CCF it might be that problematic.
Using the conversion kit makes no difference to the standard L98A2 requirements laid down in ACTO 43 Para 47 refers to the kit, but doesn’t indicate if Para 35 still applies.
But you’re coming from the other side.
The ACF are more than happy to do it, but it seems the ATC job protection mob, that seem to be the problem. Given that the ATC struggles to get enough people qualified for shooting across the board, if we all start going to the ACF to get it done, would we need the ATC shooting set up and officers FTRS and CFAV poncing around. No.
The ATC seems to suffering from people protecting / justifying jobs in many areas and it is stymying progress / development.
The ATC doesn’t use the SCA. The rest of the RAFAC do…
I’ve used them recently, in preparation for a DCCT competition shoot on RAST. The RAF used to regard this as a separate category on the F7257 (‘L41A1 SCA’) but my understanding is that they have now dropped the requirement for separate categories on the F7257 and you are allowed to exercise your quals on any weapon for which you have a valid, in date WHT, which is the SASC rule anyway.
The L41A2 SCA isn’t a weapon system - it forms part of the L98A2 system. As such it doesn’t require staff or cadets to have a separate WHT. The only minor issue which you can deal with in the range briefing is that the working parts don’t lock open after the final round. I usually deal with this by requiring cadets to fire off one extra round after counting their issued rounds - they should get a click on an empty chamber - then manually put working parts to the rear. That’s up to you - no requirement.
BUT - and this is the biggie - you can only shoot if your own chain of command will sign it off. They MAY have a problem with you doing things outside your own ATC system - if so, I’d be inclined to ask them to justify this, as most (all?) CCFs are far more current on the weapons than the ATC, as we keep them on units and use them regularly. But you can’t get around the system…
But I’ve just read ACTO43 and it states that cadets must have done L98 training and hold a WHT before they use the L41A2, which means they must be 14, mentally mature and have completed either air rifle or small bore service rifle marksmanship test to trained shot standard or a legacy sqn marksman.
And storage isn’t an issue. The CCF unit is storing them and doing all the training and RCOing. I now know we can use them, but now I want to know if the CCF (RAF) cadets have to jump through the same hoops the ATC cadets do before they use it.
