[quote=âthe fixerâ post=3584]Of course the cadets should be WHTâd. Itâs a weapon! Whilst I agree that knowing the marksmanship principles or aiming off for wind isnât exactly important for arms drill.
The WHT checks you know how to handle the weapons safely. We teach you do NSPs when handing the weapon to another or the beginning of every range practice or period etc. You canât throw safe handling rules out of the window because you canât be arsed. You should be trained and competency checked with a WHT.[/quote]
with that in mind all that is covered in Lesson 1 of the L98A2 lessons.
stripping&clearning, loading/unloading drills, friring pracise and the rest of the lessons are not relevant to a âarms drill sessionâ
it would make sense to have an Arms Drill WHTâŚbut this will cause a two tier system, and confusion and potential dangers as a arms drill WHTâd Cadet could be allow to fire the L98 without lessons 2 onwardâŚ
[quote=âsteve679â post=3760]
with that in mind all that is covered in Lesson 1 of the L98A2 lessons.
stripping&clearning, loading/unloading drills, friring pracise and the rest of the lessons are not relevant to a âarms drill sessionâ
it would make sense to have an Arms Drill WHTâŚbut this will cause a two tier system, and confusion and potential dangers as a arms drill WHTâd Cadet could be allow to fire the L98 without lessons 2 onwardâŚ[/quote]
I think you are just over complicating the situation. Chances are, by the time you are teaching rifle drill to a cadet they will have already done rifle lesson 1. You as the instructor (who will probably have a valid WHT anyway) can get them to port arms and then you can check each weapon yourself. Job jobbed.
[quote=âBaldrickâ post=3586]
L103s and No4 DP rifles cannot fire, cannot chamber rounds and therefore are not really weapons.[/quote]
On a side note, an L103 can chamber a round, it just canât fire it.
[quote=âMattBâ post=3776]I canât really see how arms drill is any more dangerous weapons-wise than IWT, which cadets can do without a WHT (obviously).
I donât think that a seperate âarms drill WHTâ is required, simply having done lesson 1 should be sufficient.[/quote]
Without a WHT yes, but lesson 1 is Characteristics, Safety and Sights. NSPs are the very first thing taught. WHT is part of the progression of training.
I really donât see the objection to having a WHT to do arms drill.
[quote=âthe fixerâ post=3785]I really donât see the objection to having a WHT to do arms drill.[/quote]Because it is a test which covers a multitude of actions which have no relevance whatsoever to the activities involved in rifle drill. As such it poses an unnecessary obstacle to the conduct of the activity whilst offering no improvement in safety for the operators.
The NSP is the only part of the test which has relevance. However as the drill will be carried out in a controlled environment under the tutelage of a qualified DI (who should hold a current WHT) the weapons can be proven safe by the instructor as they are in lesson 1 before the NSPs are taught. There is clear and proven scope for a sensible alternative to be put in place.
There is also hope that the present rules as to which rifles can be used will be relaxed - if they permit us to borrow the PP rifles from the SCC (and with luck eventually source our own) then the WHT is not poissble on that rifle as it has no moving parts. I fear that, as usual, the paperwork will not be able to keep up with changes in policy (or, I fear, local decisions)
[quote=âthe fixerâ post=3785]I really donât see the objection to having a WHT to do arms drill.[/quote]It just seems to be an extra obstacle to be put in the way.
Training on NSPs for the rifle can be done in under 30 minutes, and thus would be perfectly achievable if you wanted to run a one-day course - whereas training the cadets to WHT standard takes a full day by itself.
[quote=âMattBâ post=3790][quote=âthe fixerâ post=3785]I really donât see the objection to having a WHT to do arms drill.[/quote][b]It just seems to be an extra obstacle to be put in the way.
[/b]Training on NSPs for the rifle can be done in under 30 minutes, and thus would be perfectly achievable if you wanted to run a one-day course - whereas training the cadets to WHT standard takes a full day by itself.[/quote]
I think this (see bold) is where our views differ. I see it as part of training.
On a side note shouldnât we focus on training for the wps primary purpose before using it for a secondary purpose?
It is part of training, but not rifle drill training. Letâs assume that all your cadets are trained on the weapon but half of them do not have a current WHT - a very possible scenario. Because of the WHT, those cadets cannot do rifle drill even though they are not firing the weapon or going anywhere near ammunition. There are no rules in any JSPs or Pams that say that you need a WHT to handle the rifle or to take part in rifle drill, it is just a rule made up by (I assume) by the air cadet hq.
Why not just WHT them and be done with it? They can go shooting then, too.
Hereâs my 2pâs worthâŚ
@Merlin:
Thereâs a policy letter on sharepoint somewhere outlining the rules relating to parading with weapons, as already discussed. Having spoken to a number of chaps whoâve done the course, they all said it was really interesting, but then none of the guys I spoke to had learned arms or sword drill prior to attending. As a DI who already knows arms drill, sword drill, funeral drill, stick drill etc I suspect I might find it a little boring. Assuming you were Q-DI, then I suspect you might too.
Regarding the WHT issueâŚ
For me, itâs impractical to arm an entire ACO parade. A number of years ago I was looking into the idea of setting up a ceremonial flight within my old wing along the lines of HKACâs âCâ Sqn. The intention was to appoint an officer as OC along with a training officer and a number of SNCO drill instructors. Cadets could then apply to join the flight and after a dayâs assessment would be permitted to attend bi-monthly practice weekends covering arms drill, banner drill, sword drill, funerals etc.
The idea what that theyâd act as a guard for formal occasions, look after the Wing Banner and provide a banner party for it, and allow for the structured development of senior cadets in the dril and ceremonial world. We were also hoping that by creating a cadre of experts that continued to attend their loca squadrons we could eradicate some of the bad habits that never seem to go away.
For me this type of arrangement, weather at Wing or Sqn level, is the only way that itâd be possible for cadets to learn SA80 arms drill to the standard required for parading in public. In this case, the addition of 2 days of L98A2 training is hardly a massive burden! After all, most cadets love L98A2 IWT - providing itâs delivered by a good instructor.
So hereâs a challenge for all those DIs who are bemoaning the need for cadetâs to be WHTâd before having a rifle issued - if you havenât qualified as a SAAI, regardless of wether youâve done the old WI course or not, book yourself on the course.
You can then train your cadets in weapon handling and arms drill. Win-Win.
Why are they called save handling rules then?
[/quote]
I donât get your point. Those are the rules you must obey when handling weapons. None of them say that you need to do a WHT to actually handle a weapon.
[quote]
Why not just WHT them and be done with it? They can go shooting then, too.[/quote]
Assuming we are talking about a parade night, you may not have the time.
You will find NSPs are easier to teach if you donât try teaching it as the very first thing. I recommend starting with parts and characteristics.
Iâll be honest, the whole WHT thing doesnât really bother me as we donât have that particular rule!
[quote=âtalonâ post=3797]
You will find NSPs are easier to teach if you donât try teaching it as the very first thing. I recommend starting with parts and characteristics.[/quote]
[quote=âLeeroyâ post=3799][quote=âtalonâ post=3797]
You will find NSPs are easier to teach if you donât try teaching it as the very first thing. I recommend starting with parts and characteristics.[/quote]
[quote=âLeeroyâ post=3799][quote=âtalonâ post=3797]
You will find NSPs are easier to teach if you donât try teaching it as the very first thing. I recommend starting with parts and characteristics.[/quote]
You mean just like the lesson 1 in Pam5C?[/quote]
Thatâs exactly what I do. I would have been better saying they are taught in the 1st lesson and they are NSPâd before the lesson by myselfâŚbut itâs moot point and irrelevant to the argument at hand.
