Any Ex-Regulars at Lower Rank in RAFAC?

I agree… I have run squadons for about 28 years. I feel that I am experienced enough to retain Flt Lt acting, unpaid.
I won’t get Sqn Ldr even if Hell does freeze over !

Careful, I said that about Wg Cdr, and after a while I had my no 1s expensively resewn with separate rank braid rings (‘might as well, I’ll never get promoted now’…) and got promoted within a year of doing that! Just in time to be a Wg Cdr RAFVR(T), too, before the CFC.

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About 10 years ago I had an AEF flight with former Air Chief Marshall Sir Jock Stirrup who wore Fg Off VR(T). Only twiged when I saw his forage cap with light blue and his name patch. I would say most ex-regulars are in it for their enjoyment of paying back to the next generation rather than collecting salutes, medals and the novelty value of thinking they are RAF…been there, done it, loved it!

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Our Fg Off is an ex WG Cdr Medical officer - he is quite happy as a RAFAC Fg Off.

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We have an ex-regular flt lt going through the process to commission as a CFC fg off. I know of another reserve (FTRS and PTVR at different points) flt lt also commissioning as a CFC fg off.

Personally I think they should keep flt lt, but also that sqn officers should top out at flt lt rather than fg off.

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Thing is that all cfc ranks above Fg Off are non-substantive as otherwise you would need to go through a disciplinary process to reduce them in rank which isn’t appropriate for a volunteer organisation.

We have quite a few AVMs floating about the AEF side with Fg Off rank insignia as that’s their RAF VR rank.

It’s quite right for AVM to hold an appropriate RAFVR rank to fit in to the sqn structure. Ex flt lts should be able to fit in just fine, without a reductuin in rank, because flt lt is a standard rank for anyone who’s finished their post-Cranwell development.

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But within the RAFAC organisation it generally denotes experience or suitability for a particular role.

I’m sure they were extremely competent as a logistics officer (for example), but how transferable is that actually to RAFAC? Not very, would be my guess. It’s a completely different role, it just happens to be that we wear the same uniform.

RAFAC differs also in that Flt Lt is generally a rank given for role appointment, not one that just falls out of a cereal box after X years like it does in the regular service. It’s a subtle difference but an important one.

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It’s a difference for difference’s sake and one that needn’t exist.

Erm sorry really disagree. It’s a difference that is fundamental to the running of a volunteer youth training program. Volunteers go up & down like a yo yo. What you are suggesting was tried in the early days of the ATC & didn’t work,

In the military the psychology is that you train to think similar & work in the same way so you are adaptable to any situation & can be posted accordingly. Individuality is sacrificed for the greater good.,

In the cadet forces we are trying to encourage young people to gain confidence, help define themselves & speak up they get a greater understanding of the situation so they can come up with creative solutions in life.

A regular military officer can default to the direct “I gave you an instruction” style of management.

This style is not available in the cadet forces so if you cannot manage people who basically can tell you no they won’t do something then you will struggle.

The rank in cadet forces indicates the level of responsibility you have volunteered for rather than a pure position in any hierarchy.

If a former regular officer wants to volunteer for that extra responsibility then fine they can wear the rank but if they don’t want to & have no intentions of delivering the expectations of the rank then they default to the rank that they prefer.

Volunteer world is all about perception & rank is just part of the illusion & mummery. The person who holds a rank must be gave credibility in rank - automatically giving rank when we have no idea how effective they previously were (I.e. were they competent or were they a dullard).

The system works for the cadet forces works (in a fashion) - trying to replicate something from a non-comparable organisation would just be a recipe for disaster.

I do feel that if a former regular officer wants to be a SNCO instead of CFC volunteer that should be permitted too, but again the rank is a choice not an automatic.

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critically those people are not just fellow colleagues as CFAVs but these include Cadets too.

A Rockape Sgt will need a different style and approach in work than if they are a SI at their local ATC Squadron as talking to a Squad of Regiment Gunners is vastly different to instructing half a dozen 13 year olds.

Different sandpit - different rules
Just because we wear the same uniform with a few different badges plus we are allowed to wear some badges from regular service does not mean that anything else transfers across

RAFAC rank is for RAFAC - RAF rank is irrelevant when in the RAFAC

to be honest I wonder who it is that is worried about this - ex regs don’t really care about it

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Bit of a red flag. If someone’s that bothered about a bit of cloth then what are they there for, their ego or the cadets?

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I’m generalising but with the ones who are ex-regular or ex-reserve & are bothered by the uniform & status, very often it’s because they can’t let go of their previous life & move on.

Cadets allows them to cling on to a thread that they can’t let go from, a little bit like Peter Pan syndrome.

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As a current Reg Off when I get to properly volunteer (instead of being a SI) I’ll happily be a Fg Off, it’s the best rank and entitles you to say “but it’s my first day” :joy:

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Could 30 years plus get Sqn Ldr - Acting, Unpaid of course !