Well this is the problem I am very strict when it comes to AP’s possibly due to my RAF background.
Now am I being to harsh towards cadets and other staff about dress regs i.e what they cant wear because the AP don’t say they can? Or should i learn to chill out? My argument is we have AP’s so we should follow them otherwise what’s the point in having them.
I look forward to some feedback from you good people
I think that it’s good to have high standards, and while cadets might grumble at the time, it provides them with something to be proud of when they know that the squadron is smart and military (and I think that most of them begrudgingly accept this).
However if there was a situation where cadets (plural) were leaving because of it, then that’s definitely too far.
Be strict, but be realistic. If there are legitimate reasons why you can’t follow the manual to the letter (supply issues for instance) then be prepared to bend a little.
Be more strict with staff and senior cadets as they are setting the example.
Well one cadet has left because every parade I wold ask him why he has not ironed his uniform I even went as far as showing him how to iron it but he never attempted it the uniform would come out of the wash onto him.
The rest of the cadets think its great to have high standards they regularly try to score higher than each other on inspections its the staff that seem to have a problem with this all I keep getting of some staff is this isn’t the military who cares if they wear GPJ’s ECT.
Or worse adult staff wearing long sleeve Wedgwood shirts with the sleeves rolled up!!!
[quote=“zinggy” post=10150]Well one cadet has left because every parade I wold ask him why he has not ironed his uniform I even went as far as showing him how to iron it but he never attempted it the uniform would come out of the wash onto him.
The rest of the cadets think its great to have high standards they regularly try to score higher than each other on inspections its the staff that seem to have a problem with this all I keep getting of some staff is this isn’t the military who cares if they wear GPJ’s ECT.
Or worse adult staff wearing long sleeve Wedgwood shirts with the sleeves rolled up!!![/quote]
In regard to your first point, you don’t need a cadet like that. As long as you’re not making them feel victimised you have a responsibility to uphold standards. If the cadet can’t maintain them, nor do they want to maintain them, then this isn’t the organisation for them. (What doesn’t help is if it was just you trying to enforce the point, then no matter how right you are, if noone else backs you up, you will look like the bad guy.)
As for the last bit. I did that very thing myself two weeks ago on an event. I had cadets looking like they were about to drop from heat within 30 minutes of arrival, so I applied copious amounts of water and told all of them to remove ties and roll up sleeves. Are we technically allowed to do that? No. But the dress regs are not more important than their welfare. (Or mine)
The whole thing is a question of judgement. And knowing the difference between stuff which is absolutely prohibited by the AP and stuff which is more open to interpretation.
once a parent complained about my attitude to his son due to the shoes he wore.
these were not the regualr DMS style shoes, and quickly realized the family didnt have the funds to supply the son with a specific pair of shoes for ATC.
i adopted a change in approach accordingly and rather than comment/question his chosen foot wear (which in fairness was a black leather school shoe) these were never clean in appearance and certainly not polished.
given this is the minimum standard i maintained my stance on the state of his shoes, given, if what frustratingly, the rest of his uniform was “acceptable” there was at least some evidence effort had been made…but never on the shoes.
he stopped turning up and later parent of said Cadet turned up to complain that his son was told off every night for having the wrong shoes.
I was questioned over this and explained the above…but it was too late the damage had been done.
personally i think he was looking for an excuse to leave.
a neighbouring Sqn has a story of some recruits who refused to cut their hair. they were surfers and they long hair was “part of the look” too which the Sqns reply was along the lines of "short hair is part of our look"
the brothers left Sqn never to return.
i agree with above comments, maintain the standards as laid down as practical given our circumstances (ie supply, personal financial circumstances) there is a difference between being strict and being correct
i would expect the likes of Halton/RTS to be strict, everything has to be just so…with us, Cadets we should maintain what is correct, in terms of uniform clean, polished, pressed and irons as appropriate.
when it comes to drill competitions and the like there is reason to become strict, its about proportionate application
I agree it is better to do that in that situation however the member of staff that was doing it was in a A/C squadron and told me they could do it as the cadets do the cadets were in working dress
i’ve had an Officer come on parade in short sleeves and tie on one occasion!
I say set the standards high. Just because they’re cadets doesn’t mean we should expect less of them. Give them something to aim for and most of the time they’ll acheive it.
That said, there are a number of people in the Corps who seem to have it backwards; ignorantly missing the bigger picture and taking less important things a little too seriously. I think we should be looking to the RAF more often for precedent and guidance. If the RAF aren’t worried about something, then why do we get bent out of shape about it?
i’ve had an Officer come on parade in short sleeves and tie on one occasion![/quote]
Must admit I have never come across that before thank god lol
If they had no short sleeve shirts, it’s acceptable…ish. But unless it’s really hot, just stop whingeing and wear a tie. (Common for newly appointed staff who haven’t had chance to go to kitting and are using what’s in stores.) What really GMG is staff who wear short sleeve shirts when the cadets are in long sleeves.
Must admit when I was in the RAF the only time my long sleeve was ever out was in No 1’s or if I was going for a one way chat with the boss…
[quote=“Baldrick” post=10158]
If they had no short sleeve shirts, it’s acceptable…ish. But unless it’s really hot, just stop whingeing and wear a tie.[/quote]
disagree, the only time i see it as acceptable is welfare based, ie the weather. throw a tie on and be done with it.
[quote=“Baldrick” post=10158]
What really GMG is staff who wear short sleeve shirts when the cadets are in long sleeves.[/quote]
seconded!
and further to this and somewhat related to ziggy’s post
it would seem “standard practise” for some on our Sqn not to even bother with a long sleeve under number 1s “why bother getting all hot with long sleeve, when the jacket is too hot as it is”
[quote=“Baldrick” post=10151]I had cadets looking like they were about to drop from heat within 30 minutes of arrival, so I applied copious amounts of water and told all of them to remove ties and roll up sleeves. [/quote]Any reason that the event couldn’t have been done in 2C?
I wasn’t expecting the heat to be as bad as it was based on the forecast and the previous day. The nature of what we were doing really leans towards best blues, but next year we won’t bother as nobody noticed this year. (although things worked out ok as rolled up wedgewood shirts is actually cooler than 2C)
You can never be too harsh on niff naff and triv. This is the Air Force, not the Fair Force. Oh wait… :lol:
Got it. We’re here to defend democracy, not practice it! Oh, wrong again… :lol:
Common sense with kids has got to be the way ahead surely?
Is that an actual serious, sensible comment sirvicalsmeer?! I think I need to sit down, am getting light headed due to shock!
Is that an actual serious, sensible comment sirvicalsmeer?! I think I need to sit down, am getting light headed due to shock![/quote]
It is. Throw enough darts and one will eventually hit the target. My biggest peeve is people in the ATC who treat cadets exactely like an adult regular. Shouldn’t be that way, hence why common sense needs to be applied.
seconded!
[/quote]Thirded.