Air Cadet Management Board

Workplace consultation is always on a representative basis you don’t get everyone having a say, and either you get to choose your representative or whoever volunteers to do it. It works in the main, ideas etc are bounced around and discussed and people feel they are involved. I don’t see that as volunteers we are any less worthy of being fully involved in things, in fact more so than people dropped on us. I’ve heard through friends that when headmasters and headmistresses are questioned by a panel of school staff and another of pupils and their views taken into overall account in the appointment process.

Take parliament and local councils, people stand for election and people vote for them to represent them, it’s then down to us to ‘engage’ with them, to try and influence decisions.

If you hold shares in businesses you may be invited to the AGM and all that entails.

The thinking / suggestion seems to be that we the volunteers are like the women of the past, who shouldn’t worry their minds about little more than frippery and leave the real things to the men, is a huge insult. We have people imposed upon us as senior management and seem stuck with all of them until they decide they don’t want to do it anymore (due to the lucrative salaries), in which time they can wreak all manner of havoc and all we can do is watch. I’m not sure that in the real world many of the current crop would be in post having overseen mess after mess

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So who or what exactly is the “customer” element? In which way is this group a customer?

Who are this bunch to say what is and isn’t a good idea, anymore than anyone of us?

Let’s be honest OC 2FTS is behind some of the Corps’ major mess ups in the last decade and a half, so not entirely sure they can be trusted to differentiate between good or bad. Just sounds like more things to make it look like they are doing something and justifying salaries.

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There are 2 CEBs, an Aviation CEB (I think to stop OC2FTS Empire Building) and Ground Training CEB.

These have been quietly active for a number of years details of activities in 2015-2017 available here

As the Command team they are the representatives of the customers (the coal face), of HQAC. The current bunch of RC do appear to engage with the senior volunteers (ie OC Wings).

This was a previous discovery, and it relates to the ACMB but no reference to CEB, as I said with FOI no guarantee of an answer. Maybe these CEBs (we are now enlightened that there are two of them) are spin offs of the ACMB, so effectively they work under the direction of the ACMB, and there reports are annexed to the main business.

So there are three teams which have appeared of late which have not been formally announced to the wider fraternity - need to know basis evidently - the mushroom syndrome .

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And in a sense … there you have it.

Still who are the customers of HQAC? Cadets, volunteers, paying public, parents paying subs?

It seems to me that this is an example of the worst kind in the wider World where the answer is to insert layers of management that do very little, are steeped in failure means a sideways move, setting long term targets means you will be sitting on a fat pension well before the next person in line has to achieve them (and changes them anyway).

No one would pretend running such a large national youth organisation is an easy thing and it needs popular and unpopular decision taking/making. (BTW … has anyone else noticed how old and weary Auntie Dawn is looking compared to photos when taking the job on?). But when the higher uniform levels create and enthuse amongst themselves, without grass roots input, the risk of believing one’s own BS increases rapidly and that is the death-knell. Certainly ‘Auntie Dawn’ is a master of hollow rhetoric and she will be long gone before anyone catches up with her past.

If anyone can spare five minutes I recommend re-reading story two in book number two of the Railway Series - Thomas’s Train. It won’t take more than a few minutes and in there you can see a fantastic allegory for the journey of the ATC into RAFAC and ‘Auntie Dawn’s’ Magical Mystery Tour.

As for civilians, there are none of genuine and worthwhile note on these fantastical constructs. All have their own agendas - if that is, they can be interested - I suspect all have questionable commitment to the wider organisation at squadron level.

One has to remember that this is a civilian organisation, run by civilians in uniform, interfacing with the RAF who provide the core programme (questionable in recent times) part-funded by the MOD and part-funded by independent charities.

celticmentor1 wrote:

‘We are all now civilian volunteers and can walk away at any time, respect is not an entitlement it is earned.’

Not entirely true. Maybe so for uniform volunteers or CI’s, but those Civilian Committee members at squadron level who are trustees, they are legally bound and liable. This is another area that has been fudged and there is more than one occasion where ATC-HQ have been forced to pay four-figure sums out in compensation for neglecting this fact.

War Kitten wrote:
“The current bunch of RC do appear to engage with the senior volunteers (ie OC Wings).”

I understand the sentiment, but in a sens there is one aspect of the problem - ‘senior volunteer’!

Who is more senior the five year in post OC Wing or the forty-year serving CivCom member?

The ten year in post OC Wing who, as a volunteer receives a level of remuneration and expenses or the twenty-year serving CivCom member who receives nothing nor any expenses yet turns out every week?

The three year in post retired RAF Regional Chairperson who has made a life-career and then comes back to a civilian post and yet still can receive remuneration and expenses, or the parent who has attended every bag-pack and car wash for five years for nothing save helping a dozen cadets get on a venture experience every so often?

I know one can write all about only doing it because you want to but if that were true all the uniformed volunteers would renounce their remittance and run the organisation throughout on expenses alone. Despite the grumbles from time to time on levels, it is a remuneration of some kind and they would shout louder.

I have no problem with that, save that it fuels the them and us which I perceive is currently rending the organisation asunder. And let’s be totally honest with ourselves, it is highly unlikely that the increased presence of retired uniforms in civilian roles is going to provide anything the like the Worldly experience and fresh-thinking that is needed in the modern world. History says so, track record says so and current experiences say so.

Put in a few lines of management and keep the difficulties away. If one gets through, isolate it, dispose of it and pretend its all going well. Management style from the 1970s.

So I ask again, who are the customer’s of ATC-HQ such that additional management levels are required from people we never see? (And I ask that question against a backdrop of reducing uniform volunteers and cadets nationally under the current regime).

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And, have the potential for terms of imprisionment under the law, why do people take this on when the ACO will do their best to not support them.

I don’t think HQAC regard anyone in the volunteer side, including parents, as being their customers. If they had to or were expected to account for their action or lack of it, to these groups, a few CFAV moaning about pay, pensions etc, would pail into insignificance.
The generally held view is that less than 5% of people actually bother complaining, most just buy something else or go somewhere else, but these latter groups, especially in the wonderful world of social media, make their views known there and these can be all over the place in a millisecond and there is nothing you can do about it. Something that HQAC’s conrrol freaks would not be happy with.
However the evidence in the ATC is that people just leave and do something else.

This is the same for a lot of people, look at pictures of Obama and Blair before and after a few years in their jobs.
I can’t be certain but I don’t think the current CAC was prepared for the ATC, in terms of the number of staff who’d seen and heard it all before, and knew the opening few months would soon become dulled. The fact we don’t get paid to do this, brings a different dynamic to those in salaried positions, when it comes to doing new things, changing or doing things different. The gliding ‘pause’ debacle, problems with AEF and problems affecting shooting probably showed just how powerless the role is in terms of affecting change and the drip of cadets and staff has meant trying to reinvent the wheel, which all takes a toll.
I think the only Commandant we’ve had in the last 20 years that was up for changing things was Gordon Moulds, but he was hampered by some old guard RCs, who were harder to get rid of than a biro stain. Not that I agreed with everything but you certainly got a sense of someone who had some definite ideas and how to achieve them. If he’d been around as an FTRS some of the old guard would have got short shrift as they wouldn’t have been so able to, as I suspect, call in a favour or two to arrange a posting. I get a sense that Gordon Moulds wouldn’t have been stymied by the gliding and AEF problems and would have been more open to pushing for providing the experience through other avenues.

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And so say all of us!

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To summarise then we now know who the ACMB are, but NOT their official remit or to whom they are accountable.

They were in existence when AEF and gliding got paused - according to an engineer I spoke to a while ago the AEF was paused due to a cheap skate engineering solution, so not within the sphere of ACMB influence. (Would Gordon Moulds have overcome where failure appears to point towards the ACMB) And if you look through the reference provided by ‘themajor’ there appears a suggestion camp linked AEF could be had by liaising with the Station Commander Benson.

But it will only happen if the Station Commander is inclined towards his staff helping. Many service regulars are former Cadets, but in my experience they have got to dislike the ACO, partly because of some of the people who inhabit it.

I have heard of a Regional Commandant who tried to talk to a Station Commander, that is equal rank status, but got precisely nowhere, in fact a very brief one way conversation .

It then appears we have a Board which is seeking to exert direction and control over all individuals who are connected in one way or another to the Organisation, but clearly that control or even influence stops at the ACO door; thereafter you are relying on pure goodwill of others to make it happen.

Surely the rate of cadet turnover and declining numbers points a finger at it not working;
this is born out by the statistics over the past five years. Meanwhile you a bunch of volunteers who believe in the organisation and freely give their time, in complete ignorance that their future is being controlled.

That is fact not theory before anyone comes up with that idea.

The other thing is that service regulars have had since GW1 a constant cycle of operations deployments and exercises with diminishing resources, they are tired and helpig the ACO has come far down their list of priorities when they just want time with their families.

The attitude of some of the ACO does not help the situation above.

I think that Jon Ford would have been kicking a few backsides had he still been Commandant. :wink:

Let’s get rid of all rules & regulations in the RAFAC then we won’t need direction & guidance from those in the Chain of Command…

Good grief apparently, you really don’t like the Corps & would like it & all those who strive to deliver a worthwhile experience to young people to disappear.

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You are the CAC and I claim my £5.

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I agree completely with you that any sensible organisation takes into account the views of those who contribute to it. However the examples you quote do not appear, at first viewing , to have relevance to those who act as volunteers with any organisation. We are not employed by the RAFAC , the RAFAC are not part of the representative democracy system and we are not shareholders. However, as volunteers, we often make an emotional attachment to the organisations we support. We (and I include myself) then often react to events from an emotional rather than professionally detached perspective.

The RAFAC are, in the main, funded by the RAF. The link below should take you to ACMB minutes from Sep 16. Annex A the Financial Report indicates a total budget in excess of £ 26.8M (plus of course the hidden support costs carried by the RAF). At Annex B is the report on the GPF indicating spending of £1.5M to support key activities such as sport, BTEC, DofE, Regional Activity Centres, Personal Accident Insurance, CI polo shirts, IACE etc.

And my point ? Any organisation such as the RAF, which sponsors an activity for more than 94% of its declared budget and carries the legal responsibility for its outputs will want to have ultimate control of those outputs. It exercises that control by putting in place people who understand how the RAF works . That inevitably means that most have little or any knowledge of how the RAFAC actually delivers for cadets which leads to many decisions that appear, from the coalface, to be illogical and badly managed. That is the penalty for the funding.

Alternatives? If the volunteer body as a whole wish to commit to running the organisation, as they would like to, move to the Sea Cadet model with individual units as independent charities responsible for their own funding and with minimal support from the parent service.

With all the current difficulties and challenges I know which one I prefer.

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Alternatives? If the volunteer body as a whole wish to commit to running the organisation, as they would like to, move to the Sea Cadet model with individual units as independent charities responsible for their own funding and with minimal support from the parent service.

I am not sure how you might explain the fact that in Scotland, all RAFAC Charities are required to be registered because that is the Law - the RAFAC has no discretion.

The Sea Cadets (that is the each individual Charity’s Trustees) appear to have registered all their Charities, even though in England & Wales, some are below the threshold for compulsory registration.

The Sea Cadets have always not had MOD funding, if you discount the Training Ships and HMS Bristol, input from the RFCA and admin support, because the RN has an expensive surface and sub fleet deterent to maintain.

I think if you do your full research there was a decision at one point (60/70s) for the SCC to break away from the Navy and integrate more with the merchant navy… this led to changing in the SCC organisation to what it is now.

Aries,
You may be pleased to know that following further research you are right and i am wrong. The Marine Society and Sea Cadets does indeed get a grant in aid from the RN (£10.135M in 2016-17)

However, my main point remains. We either sit within the RAF or outside it with ( hopefully) RAF support. I am for staying.

How much control etc does the RN exert for the money and is their a dearth of retired RN officers faffing around?

It would be interesting to know, maybe I will try to find out but as I said before, ALL SCC Units have their supporting Charities registered with the Charity Commission so that in theory there is a more open accountability under Charity Law, plus they also occasionally place adverts for experienced external Trustees.

Slightly different to having retired staff getting nominated for nice little jobs on the Board, where they can easily get confused as to which side of the line they are working.