Indeed.
Whats the point of all the boxes on sms otherwise.
Couldnt even begin to tell you how many of those i have written…
Maybe this is the issue - if you have to enter all the relevant information on SMS just once you can then get SMS to produce the docs
Plus if the info does not change you can clone for next time and if the template is updated SMS covers that for you - we do it with TG21s so why not further
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I think the point was that an AO has some vague standard to it. In many cases when just using the SMS activity details box, people often (and still do) just add one liners and no detail.
An AO sets out some of the basic information needed at least.
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Probably because we’re all being forced to attach AOs which also contain said information…
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Great shout
Yeah, this would actually be really good. I’m personally a fan of having admin orders. Mainly because it’s something I can print out and use as reference during an activity. If SMS allowed for a ‘report’ with all the information to be printed, that’d work too I guess.
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Just need to be careful it doesnt take away from the actual thinking of planning an activity.
Atleast assurance from above would be consistent.
My view is that SMS is the event record and all else are supporting documents. I shouldn’t need to state that “the activity commander for this event is XYZ” when the Activity Commander is already labelled on the Approvals tab. Any sub task commanders, would be labelled in the AO.
Another example would be that there is Corps policy regarding overnight cadet accommodation. I shouldn’t need to restate that policy in an AO. Clarify it and how it applies to my activity yes… restate it, no.
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I’m 100% with you regarding stating policy in the admin order.
As an authoriser I refer back to policy during my authorisation process anyway so there is no need for the person writing the admin order to do so.
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It is largely because the people demanding to see such information don’t know their bottoms from their elbows and have probably never run an activity or written an admin order in anger.
The south west one is farcical. It includes asking us to make sure we designate a helicopter landing site. That we should use our unit provided mobile phone to call 999. It’s almost like they don’t understand who we are.
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And there is the problem. The organisation has absolutely no idea what volunteers are!
If the organisation wants all this admin BS then they need to employ more permanent staff at Wing levels to deal with it.
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I know… the unit provided mobile phone made me giggle. At least there’s some solice that RHQ will be providing funding for these mobile phones (otherwise they wouldn’t have put it in the AO template, surely - hihi).
As a completely untrained RAFAC volunteer, how can I designate a safe landing site should HEMS be required? Not least, it’s all very well putting this in my admin order, but unless it’s a significant event with emergency services liaison, HEMS will be landing where they deem appropriate / want to anyway.
they don’t have a clue how things work at the sharp end!
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I’m probably late to the party, I think @JoeBloggs said it but I’ve certainly been basing my AO’s from of a template (perhaps its this L&SER template you mentioned) that was around this sort of length that included Maps, Kit List, Contact details and EASP. My most recent AO & EASP ended up being 20 pages.
Certainly initially a lot of work, but i didn’t know any better.
Also re: HEMS, mine (template) had this paragraph in,
Heli Rescue/Air Ambulance. Team members should anticipate the possible use of
SAR/Air Ambulance. Suitable helicopter landing site should be identified and
marshals detailed. Hi Vis clothing or markers should be used.
but i was advised to change it to this
Heli Rescue/Air Ambulance. Team members should anticipate the possible use of SAR/Air Ambulance. Personnel should not attempt to indicate or marshal a landing site and should leave this to the professionals.
What on earth were you doing that needed 20 pages of admin order?!
I have no idea… just changed the red bits to match my activity
But then why bother with 20 pages? If you don’t even know what it contains what use is it. I really cannot think of an activity other than maybe a large regional AT or LFMT activity that would ever need to be that big.
But this whole form filling saga is going crazy
The RSD template took a lot of the content of the old RAM out - huzzah!
However, on submitting my 1st RSD I was told that whilst it was not needed, all the stuff that was removed should be included after to show I knew what I was doing and then to add some extra stuff such as declaration text, Accident reporting flow charts and forms etc…
Ended up longer than the previous doc…
Sorry, slightly tongue in cheek response
(From my limited experience of writing AOs) The AO itself is 4 pages, the rest of the latter pages are Google maps of route, restpoints, flowcharts, blank Incident Log, copy & paste of the applicable part of the V7 Return to F2F. Then the kit lists.
(Also to correct myself, its not 20 (that was just poor formatting when opening the file on the new chromebook) it would be 16 when formatted correctly)
…and everytime you and an SPO agree on what is required and develop a suitable ‘template’ doc
…they move and a new SPO is appointed who rips your previously approved doc to bits and you have to start again.
And don’t get me started on Defence Writing Nazis who think they are writing major Op Orders…
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