Not from me they don’t. They just get the JIs which are mostly a stripped out version of the AO.
4 Likes
Exactly. The AO should be a document which could (in principle) be picked up by another staff member to run the activity should the original person not be around.
JIs are specifically for participants and have a much reduced set of info in them.
There are of course times (such as CFAV courses, or simple events) where the AO can serve both purposes if it’s been sensibly tailored.
An evening climbing session could be a one pager for example which serves both purposes.
3 Likes
Mine don’t, Cadets get joining instructions, ideally tailored to them. (So if I have 2 minibuses going to an event depending on what bus is going depends which version you get).
1 Like
Exactly Admin Order is for directing and supporting staff or liaisons thereof (ACLOs, etc). JIs only for cadets and parents!
But if we’re now in a position where we need to quote Corps policy in ever Admin Order…. Kiss goodbye to 1 or 2 pages.
1 Like
I’ve never minded tbh, it was one possible reason for applying policies into the document, as otherwise I agree it’s pointless.
I quote the lessons 1 to 4 policy for arms drill to keep the shooty types in their box.
In transport, I just put a simple line of “squadrons are to ensure that SOVs are maintained with reference to IBN xxxx and drivers are authorised to drive the type of vehicle”.
But that’s still not what an admin order is for.
The Transport bit of the Admin Order is for “we will travel from X to Y, A will drive and we will use Vehicle B”.
It’s not for “the policy says this and we will stick to the policy”. If they must have that (I don’t think it’s required) it should be in the risk assessment.
3 Likes
To me those types of compliance policy notes belong in RAs, because that’s what they are for - risk mitigation (SST, etc)
4 Likes
I’d tend to agree. Policy is ultimately there for safety (in many cases) and therefore Risk Assessments should acknowledge Policy as a beat practice method, referencing them as appropriate. But I’m not going to write that out again on my admin order…… the words jog on come to mind.
Come to that though, I’m not going to list all the Risk Assessments that I’ve attached to my SMS in an Annex to my Admin Order (although this is suggested).
2 Likes
Yeah I won’t be doing that either!
1 Like
A lot of AT activities in LaSER, or certainly Sussex have always used a very similar template Admin Order. For AT it often makes sense. Things like a ‘safe persons’ table etc. Although yes this information is available on SMS, it is much clearer in that form with Person A is AIC and has X, Y and Z qual. Person B is Dep IC, and has Y and X qual. Person B is designated driver and has FMT 600 etc etc.
I’ve currently lost access to SMS (
) so can’t easily pull an example of this Admin Order. It’s generally pretty useful to be fair. Don’t remember it being as long as the one SW is suggesting.
I would generally put that sort of thing in a Supervision Plan rather than the AO. (Although I might make the Supervision Plan an Annex of my AO)
I think this is the key bit. An AO with all the major info in is the best way. As someone mentioned above, it makes it a key document that someone else could pick up and run the activity from. It should also be a key document you can hold on to during to activity for key information. I’ve just found an old one and it contains the following:
Intro/Aim: A brief overview of what the end is and what the aims are. ie, X squadron is going climbing and X location to learn how to belay.
Safe persons table: As explained above.
General outline: More detail that the intro/aim is, there will be 2 sessions, one am one pm etc etc Add in location details here
Kit list: That obvious
Timings: Obvious
Personnel/Roll Call: I normally just add “See SMS” or something similar here.
TG Forms: A couple of sentences about collection of forms if required.
Occurrences, accidents and incidents: A couple of sentences of the CoC and who to contact, with a note that contact information is below. Also a note of the emergency action plan also attached below.
Pre-Diagnosed Health Issues: Stating just to check before start there’s no one that might die half way though
Discipline: A reminder that we are representing the org while out and about etc etc
Dress: Normally just refers back to the kit list if it’s AT…
Then a whole page Emergency Action Plan. Normal stuff of Immediate Action etc.
Then a whole page Incident flow chat including all the contact numbers that might be required ie IC, WATTO, WExO, nearest hospital.
Then a page with a blank incident log.
Now typing that out feels like a lot. But when it’s on a template that I already use a lot. That can be filled out in about 20 minuets max. If it’s an event that has been run before at that location, and it’s just a new date/time then it takes about 2 minuets.
(I’ve not proof read the wall of text I just wrote so 
)
Also, this is 6 pages total after being filled out. Not 11…
1 Like
The idea of one set admin order template which must be used is utter polldarks.
Its only purpose is to detail the running of an activity and, whilst there will be certain common headings which are included almost all the time, it has to be fluid, to adapt to the activity.
For some activities a one-page AO is more than sufficient. In other cases, for big events, I’ve written massive AOs with several annexes, some with multiple appendices…
The only people who need to look at the AO are the people responsible for running it, or for authorising it, and between those people it should be accepted that everyone knows the extant policies.
In a side-rant, few things niggle me as much as seeing an admin order sent out to everyone instead of JIs. As a participant in an event, I couldn’t give a flying… who is responsible for setting up the 12x12s the week before I get there; and nor does anyone else not involved in that side of things.
4 Likes
Do you not agree that for simple events it can serve the same purpose?
(definitely not advocating that for a big, multi-unit event / camp)
1 Like
Yes, sometimes that makes sense.
Although for simple events which might have a brief AO I’m inclined to push that entering the details in the SMS event and not having a separate AO attached ought to be fine.
2 Likes
Maybe as part of the Promotion Matrix all Junior Officers should have to complete an 18 month Defence Writing correspondence course so that we all know what type of doc to use when and how it should be written - like the ISS course I had to do in the 80s complete with Rulers to measure the margins and quills to write with…
3 Likes
Loose minute…
Email…
Formal Letter…
Wasted about an hour on that during my IOC week…
7 Likes