What’s the difference between RAFAC cat bleed course & ACF cat bleed course?
Apparently they are different & one is not recognised by the other?
Ours is very much an in house only thing. It also only covers bandage + TQ. No chest seals or wound packing.
If I had to guess, the ACF one likely covers the latter two bits as well, as I think we should too!
So following from that
RAFAC deliver activity first aid underwritten by St John’s & listed as a 16+ hour
However having a google & its
- no longer listed as a course under St John’s
- others who offer it state its only 12 hours.
So is activity first aid still a current course or has it been withdrawn/down graded & no body has told RAFAC?
Is it still 16+ hour course or is only 12+ hour now?
It’s still a 16 hour course. I don’t think it was every publicly listed by St Johns as the course was just for us, I thought?
That’s what led to debates about wether it met HSE guidelines for designated First Aider outside of RAFAC.
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I was led to believe the same, that it was / is essentially an in-house course, only recognised by RAFAC.
Which is why I’ve never done it and always done FAW or / and a specific outdoor FA course as I use my FA quals outside of RAFAC.
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I’ve used my outdoor quals outside of RAFAC and the schools I’ve worked with have happily accepted it.
FWIW the first aid bod at work said I couldn’t be on the list of first aiders because my RAFAC qual wasn’t HSE approved. Funny because I’d technically had more training than some of my colleagues with their 6 hour EFAW 
This was my understanding too. Delivered by RAFAC, just using their training materials/guidance.
But is it actually accredited as a 16hr course or is it a 12 hour that has been stretched to 16 or more likely was it previously accredited but has now become lapsed but no one has told us like what happened to heart start.
Or have we’ve been told but rafac has tried to ignore it because it impacts PTS, AT & requires an expenditure to replace the badges?
Not sure to be honest. Might be worth asking on VoP?
I think SJA used to offer a 12hr “Acitivity First Aid” course publicly, which was distinct from our 16hr course and covered different (and fewer) topics.
Ours is 16hr, and is to the best of my knowledge bespoke for us. With that in mind, I would hope it would be accredited for as long as we want it to be - it’s our course, just underwritten by SJA.
FWIW, I think we should be offering FAAW and AFA - AFA isn’t particularly relevant to classroom activity, or doing some admin in the office (and obviously FAAW doesn’t give people the awareness they need whilst strolling up a hill - whether AFA actually does is a separate debate…)
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My understanding of the AFA in the RAFAC is that is is an internally provided and verified course using the SJA syllabus and materials. It is 16 hours to meet the needs of NGB requirements for FA while providing activates such as Trekking, Climbing and other RTL activities.
There is no external verification on training or assessment and as such there in no external endorsement for AFA. I also act as a First Aider as a part of my employment and get sent on a FAAW course every three years to fulfil that role.
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I do find it interesting though that if it doesn’t meet these so called HSE guidelines, then how is it a valid course for us to be using?
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It’s the lack of external verification that worries me the most with it. Sounds like that wouldn’t go down well in a coroners court.
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I would assume that St John’s is the external verification, which is why I can’t understand why our AFA doesn’t meet the criteria to be used externally.
As always, it’s as clear as mud! @moderators this could be to be split out to it’s own thread as there is possibly a lot to talk about!
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According to Oz there is no external verification. I’ve also never heard of it being verified externally.
AFA instructors and assessors are required to be SJA registered instructors and hold an appropriate PIN for that. The course is approved by SJA and instruction must meet their requirements (although I don’t know of this ever being audited…)
EDIT for clarity, I am arguing here that AFA is externally accredited and verified, although in my personal opinion loosely so
This is the bit that makes me think it is technically externally verified. St John’s are the external verifier surely?
They have to provide CPD evidence as part of that, too.
How rigourously SJA audit that I couldn’t say, but there is at least an expectation that we are internally monitoring and auditing, and through SMS we accept or reject proposed courses based on instructor currency as judged by that CPD evidence, so…
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This is true but I do not know of anyone being being verified by SJA. I would say we are using a SJA system but SJA do not verify what we do.
As an aside SJA England and SJA Cymru are two separate organisations. This could explain what is happening locally.
Why doesn’t someone email the Corps’ first aid officer and ask?
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