ACP20 Pers Form 1-19


But with social clubs you get something back by saying you’ll abide by the rules, as the club agrees to give you a nice place to meet.
I’ve been a member of the RBL for nigh on 30 years and no one has ever presented with a set of rules to adhere to. Execs have to agree to more stringent rules, but as a member as long as you stump up the annual fees, the RBL doesn’t really seem to care.

After years of not having a formal agreement, I still think we need a proper rationale as to why we need something now, and not some group of retired officers saying we’ve told you to, now do it. The way it’s written it’s all stick, which isn’t very professional.


There could be an argument for formalising the agreement, but there has to give AND take.
I have taken on an obligation to give up my time to run a unit within this organisation. I entered into this obligation aware of the responsibilities and under my own free will. The organisation benefits from this commitment. My benefit is seeing young people get opportunities that I got when I was a Cadet and watching them grow into responsible, ambitious Adults. That is the greatest benefit that can’t be quantified and is my reason why I continue.
But, and it is a big but, I am getting more and more annoyed at being treated like an idiot and a mug.
Over the last year I have been accused of being a Walt, a wannabe and deluded, all by people inside this organisation, for questioning the reasons behind the new commission. I have been accused of being a gong hunter in accepting the CFM as “it’s not a proper medal”
Now I have been presented an ultimatum to sign what I see as a flawed, rushed agreement brought in without any consultation or covenant from HQAC towards their staff. If I don’t sign this, I will be forced to stop giving up my own time running an organisation for the benefit of others. If I ask what the Air Cadets will do for me, I come across as extremely selfish, and appear to be a Walt, a Wannabe and deluded, something I do not want to be! How is this improving the appeal of Volunteering within the Air Cadet Movement?


What is needed is a groundswell of people refusing to sign this grubby document.As it stands its all stick and no carrot.
Make no mistake if everyone signs this without protest it will give the green light to the people in the Cranwell masif to push through anything they want.
The only way they will take notice is if there is a groundswell of people saying no.This organisation struggles to attract people in as it is can the CAC really afford to lose vast numbers of uniform staff (many of them highly experienced long serving sqn commanders) and experienced Wos and Sncos because of a badly worded and ill thought out piece of paper.As has been previosuly stated people put a lot in to this organisation and are heartily sick of being treat with disdain and contempt by HQAC.


HQ RAFAC can “push through” anything they want anytime they want whether or not this document is signed. Wouldn’t you rather be on the inside chipping away, than outside the organisation with no voice?


If you wish, but you will merely be asked to close the door quietly as you leave.



Where can I see a copy of this document. I don’t see it on sharepoint.



What about events leading up to today leads you to believe you have a voice inside this organisation?


While that’s entirely true, a) you don’t have to be quiet, and b), what do you think HQAC’s views are going to be on the take it or leave it attitude as the thousandth uniformed member of staff says ‘ok, see ya…’?

You know, when they begin to grasp that FTRS posts for Group Captains and Air Commodores kind of rely on having an organisation to run?


But the debacle of the CFC Commission and the surveys, whose results were ignored when they didn’t give the results they wanted, shows how much they respect the opinions of the staff of the organisation.
Why should we have to make the choice above? Why can’t the RAFAC treat their rare Staff resource better?


They haven’t realised this so far … they are not intelligent enough.

They are too caught up in playing the RAF part of the RAFAC and not the AC part.


Fill a bucket with water, insert your hand then withdraw It smoothly and quickly. Note how long it takes for for the hole left by your hand to fill with water. Repeat as required then consider results.

Make a noise if you wish, but it will change nothing and it’s unlikely that anyone will be interested.

It’s entirely up to you.



Have to agree, it’s all huff and bluster from a minority of keyboard warriors. The corps will continue. Thousands of volunteers are not going to “rise up against the empire” I’m afraid, quite delusional if anyone thinks that is going to happen. If you don’t want to sign it then don’t. It’s your choice, but then don’t be surprised by the inevitable letter that asks you to leave.


Cant disagree with this comment.Acting in isolation will bring exactly that result.My point is people need to stand up and be counted. Im willing to do that because im fed up with being lectured to by people who have no interest in treating me or anyone else staff wise with any sort of respect. Im going to push this as far as I can and maybe just maybe change something that needs changing.People can only be pushed so far.If your happy to be treat like this fine.Personally im tired and angry about this.


Thanks, just read it. Just coming up to 28 years (SNCO) service in ATC (sorry RAFAC), I don’t ever remember signing anything about why I wanted to join as a volunteer, so why should I have to sign this form to quantify what I have been doing for the last 28 years.


No need for the correction, unless you’ve been both ATC and CCF (or served on a VGS, etc)


I’m all for switching off the lights, when mums & dads stop sending their kids our way. In the meantime I’ll do the same as all other youth organisation volunteers.


It is my choice you are quite right! My big issue is why, after many years of service, do we have to make this choice.
I have never suggested we rise up, as that is pointless and would never change anything. I am just asking why it seems all ‘take’ at the moment within the ATC?
I can add “Keyboard Warrior” to the list of put downs that have been used to describe me, purely because I hold a different opinion about all these changes!


The hand in a bucket of water line is BS in the voluntary sector.

Someone leaving only has a minimal effect in a situation where you can employ people. Even then the new people cannot fully replace the skills and experience of those who leave, immediately. Very occasionally you get lucky, but it is very occasionally. But in the ATC you have people who are starting from scratch.

In the voluntary sector it’s more like putting your hand in a bucket of sand and taking handful out. I challenge anyone to say that a member of staff leaving does not create a hole. This is the same in any voluntary group and it only seems in our organisation is such is the conceit of senior management and the scorn and disparagement placed upon volunteers who don’t tow the party line.

If any squadron and wing can endure people leaving and have no detrimental effect, then it is nothing like what I have seen over the years. People leave and it leaves a credible hole in what can be delivered.

As others have said, HQAC rely on people just doing things in an altruistic manner and giving their time freely to do so without complaint and putting up with their bungling style of management at Wing, Region and Corps level, because they do this for the young people who join. However there does seem to be a significant groundswell of unrest and mistrust in the way the Corps is being managed. In the last year alone people have left as they just got fed up with the Corps’ management style, who you’d never have thought would leave, unless it was in a wooden box. One of my mates who left last Christmas has said he feels more relaxed and feels his quality of life has improved.

The only place that the bucket of water line has any real meaning in the ATC is at the top of the tree, where none of them would be missed. They are pipe and slipper dodgers unable to move on into the real world.

This agreement and making it a mandatory document is at best misguided and has the potential to be very damaging.

How many AEF pilots can be replaced at the drop of hat and likewise gliding instructors? If they could, we wouldn’t have had the problems we have had in those areas.


I think the reason behind the agreement is to finally drag us into the 21st century. All other voluntary sectors have implemented a similar agreement, the MoD is playing catchup. If you read the ACF Agreement they have signed it is a lot more blunt and pointed, the ATC have taken the same agreement and softened the wording somewhat. So if everyone thinks we in the ATC have a bad agreement to sign spare a thought for the ACF … from my understanding they have had the agreement for 12 months, the majority have signed it a small minority have not and been suspended … letters are on their way to say thanks very much for they time and efforts over the years however there is the door, leave your uniform and MoD90 on the side when you leave. The ACF is still there, it’s still doing what it does.