Within the content of an e-mail received today about SAAI courses I spied the following:
“You should now have seen the policy regarding the withdrawal of the WI qualification by 1 Apr 17.”
The forwarded e-mail came down from OC ACO CTT. I hadn’t picked this up elsewhere, so thought that I would share it for those others that hold the WI© qual and wish to continue in shooting activities.
PN
Thanks for the heads up - not filtered down to us yet.
I wonder how many will continue.
I’ve said to them that if they expect me to do a week away to learn stuff I already know and have used for years then they can stuff it. I’d accept a 1-day upgrade course to convert WI© to SAAI and certainly no more than a single weekend.
I’ve said to them that if they expect me to do a week away to learn stuff I already know and have used for years then they can stuff it. I’d accept a 1-day upgrade course to convert WI© to SAAI and certainly no more than a single weekend.[/quote]
We had the letter they talk of through from OC SATT, and there was the option in there to do a weekend conversion. I think they just wanted to see two rifle lessons in order to convert the qual?
I’ve said to them that if they expect me to do a week away to learn stuff I already know and have used for years then they can stuff it. I’d accept a 1-day upgrade course to convert WI© to SAAI and certainly no more than a single weekend.[/quote]Pretty much my view too.
I guess I’d accept one weekend, as the new course is two weekends and the old was one, so it’ll add up to the same.
A good move.
Offering a two day conversion should allow those already good WIs to requal and continue, whilst bumping some of the terrible WIs (of which there are MANY).
A good idea wasted by our lot here, who have decided that you can either do the full CTT course, or you can do the weekend conversion preceded by a weekend “preparation” course with the SATT… :ohmy:
Slightly ironic since the whole reason the CTT was set up was because some of the SATTs were deemed unsuitable to train WIs any more.
Given the choice of two weekends with the CTT, or one with the SATT and one with the CTT why would anyone actively chose the latter?
Why chose disparity over continuity?
The way people who decide to convert will be pretty much determined by their proximity to where CTT run their courses. Three of the current clutch advertised, are in Lincolnshire, which is probably OK for week long courses but for weekends at a time, probably not so appealing.
Has anyone looked at (or taken part) in the Frimley Park cses?
DATES (Will download file)
01 - 06 Nov 2015
08 - 13 Nov 2015
17 - 22 Jan 2016
31 Jan - 05 Feb 2016
14 - 19 Feb 2016
21 - 26 Feb 2016
From what I could gather from the original letter, it looks like WIs will go to the local SATT location and have CTT assessors in attendance for the weekend, so conversion would be done locally.
There was certainly no intimation that we’d have to travel to Lincolnshire for the weekend conversion courses :?
[quote=“MikeJenvey” post=25388]Has anyone looked at (or taken part) in the Frimley Park cses?
[/quote]
Yup, but then again I am ACF. 
[quote=“green monkey” post=25389]From what I could gather from the original letter, it looks like WIs will go to the local SATT location and have CTT assessors in attendance for the weekend, so conversion would be done locally.
There was certainly no intimation that we’d have to travel to Lincolnshire for the weekend conversion courses :?[/quote]
That is my understanding too. The conversion courses to be held at locations around the country in 2016/17 and OC CTT will provide the lessons you’ll be assessed on well in advance for you to prep.
Those who feel they wouldn’t pass should do the full course usually held at Cranwell/Beckingham.
Letter came around some weeks ago now.
Interesting.
From what I had understood, there was a bit of an issue a few years ago and it was decided that the ATC WI qualification was not good enough and too many below par instructors were being qualified. There was a 1-2 year period with no WI or SAAI courses for ATC personnel, and then the SAAI course as it is now, run by the CTT, was introduced. (please correct any of this if wrong!).
According to the link in green monkey’s post, this SASC Major has now said that there was nothing wrong with the WI qualification in the first place (“impressive and comprehensive” training plan).
So is this a massive U-turn, George Orwell style, ignoring the last few years and suddenly saying all is OK with WIs after all, and we should never have doubted them? Is this the end of the CTT in that case, since apparently nothing is wrong with the old qualification?
I am confused… can anyone shed any light?
Someone it seems has taken a large dose of commonsense OR accepted the reality that shooting would be severely affected across the Corps for several years if the old WI was lost as there wouldn’t be enough other / new courses. It’s a shame that something similar didn’t happen with the qcwht, if it had I suggest that shooting would be in rude health in the Corps.
Good news for a change. 
The trouble with the “new” SAAI cses cses (either ACO-sponsored or via Frimley), is that they are a week away, rather than the previous 2 x weekends.
I appreciate that SASC oversight that is required, but for many CFAVs, getting a week off work is a very difficult proposition - let alone any family involvement! For many individuals, taking a quarter of your allocated leave/holiday time to attend a SAAI cse is not viable.
Regretfully, i doubt if this could be resurrected - unless a “business case” could be made to justify it - & of course, looking at the justification for retaining the WI qualification, the qcwht course structure/paperwork trail would need to match the WI requirements.
[quote=“MikeJenvey” post=25552]Good news for a change.
The trouble with the “new” SAAI cses cses (either ACO-sponsored or via Frimley), is that they are a week away, rather than the previous 2 x weekends.
I appreciate that SASC oversight that is required, but for many CFAVs, getting a week off work is a very difficult proposition - let alone any family involvement! For many individuals, taking a quarter of your allocated leave/holiday time to attend a SAAI cse is not viable.
Regretfully, i doubt if this could be resurrected - unless a “business case” could be made to justify it - & of course, looking at the justification for retaining the WI qualification, the qcwht course structure/paperwork trail would need to match the WI requirements.[/quote]I work shifts. It would be almost impossible to get two weekends off in a row.
If you can’t commit to a week long course to be an SAAI(C) then you aren’t going to be instructing SAA. There are other courses that can make you useful to the ACO.
The WI was not fit for purpose for what is a ‘Risk to life’ activity. If the Maj OC SASC (Frimley) now says otherwise he is being ‘diplomatic’ but it doesn’t matter. SASC got what they wanted: Everyone doing the same course from now on if they want to use the same rifle!
I’ve said to them that if they expect me to do a week away to learn stuff I already know and have used for years then they can stuff it. I’d accept a 1-day upgrade course to convert WI© to SAAI and certainly no more than a single weekend.[/quote]
We had the letter they talk of through from OC SATT, and there was the option in there to do a weekend conversion. I think they just wanted to see two rifle lessons in order to convert the qual?[/quote]Risky. Which lessons? Who chooses them? What is the passmark?
The fear is that if you are allowed to go ‘Native’ you might dumb it down to suit yourselves and you’d back to where you were before. ie; a qual not fit for purpose. There will always be minor differences in drills (eg: ‘cadetisms’), but over time the incremental changes amount to completely different drills, which I have seen all over the cadet forces and the forces, regular and reserve. SASC sticking there oar in do their best to mitigate that, but its a continual battle. I’m no fan, but they are a necessary evil, but it is clear they have little or no influence in some corners.
You may have been doing it for years and not killed anybody but I’ve seen so many others who are an accident waiting to happen. And it may be the case among your peers that there is nobody around to tell you you are doing it wrong either, because they are none the wiser. But when it all goes wrong and you are picked apart by the board of enquiry, the drills, the courses attended and the quals awarded will all be on trial.
I did the full course at Frimley and minor mistakes could fail you. The lessons really had to be near perfect and almost DS quality. The length of the course and the hours put in and the excellent support of the DS allow you to reach that standard. Even so there is 12% failure rate, but often due to failing WHT on induction, or just a lack of subject knowledge or prep beforehand. People who do it a second time rarely if ever fail I am told.
One course. One school. One test/assessment. It really is the best option.
Roses are red,
Violets are blue,
I’m a schitzophrenic,
And so am I.
I’m getting tired of repeated issuing of policies or amended drills, and this being reversed or changed again a short whole later.