ACLC is one of the best wide examples where it can be seen, and often it staff who’ve been on that go back and work more closely with CCFs near themes
For me I’ve always tried to do exchanges - where can we help them, where can they help us, inter service competition, shared AT days, and students mandated to do CCF also doing ATC
There are still some staff who believe that the CCF are “worse” than the ATC and drag them but they don’t look into the fundamental differences between us. With CCFs coming under regions perhaps this is the start of people building better relationships with them.
We had a Sgt on his SSIC and the commandant was talking about this at the end.
The CCF will not be coming under the regional commandant in the same way as the ATC - probably because head teachers remain the legal DDH - it will be purely administrative support & the OC TEST areas will report in to region rather than Wg Cdr CCF direct.
Way to think of it is that the ATC come under a regional commandant, the CCF will come under a B1 civil servant as an area CEO. It’s also only on the paid side & not the volunteers (so no official involvement of sector cdrs or WWO).
As to why CCF & ATC don’t work together? As stated above it’s primarily the lack of understanding and in built biases of the Staff.
A lot of ATC staff use to be ATC cadets and as they didn’t work together as cadets don’t have interest in doing so as staff. You then have the next culture clash where the ATC will only follow what the ATC do & won’t adapt for CCF practises which is necessary for their working within the education system rather than the youth sector.
Finally really practical ones - CCF & ATC parade at different times so it’s difficult to colocate as the ATC tend to be late evenings while the CCF is normally afternoons during the school & working day.
There is a similar discussion of why ATC & the other cadet forces don’t work together more & the answer is similar to the above.
Having said that I have had more support & help with my Sqn from the CCF & the other cadets forces than the ATC as a number of Sqns see things as a zero sum gain & like to stay within their own four walls.
I have experience of working along side CCF staff, we had one ACF Capt (I think) who would semi-regularly attend our Wing shoots, as he had a good relationship with the ATC at their shared hut.
He was a perfectly acceptable CFAV.
I have also worked along side CCF staff at RIAT and likewise found them equal CFAV to ATC staff.
I can’t say I have dealt with CCF Cadets, except perhaps in passing at RIAT.
As to why the ATC and CCF don’t work closely together – well I guess in part it is down to timings.
CCF tend to linked to schools and are conducted either part of the school day or at the end of it…ie straight after school 1530-1700 or similar timings. When WFH I would see the students from the secondary school trudging their way home and on Friday some of those faces where in CCF “green” uniform.
It would be a hard sell for us to collaborate during the week as they would be pushed in the evenings, or the ATC would have to hot foot it out of school across town to another school.
There is nothing to say combined efforts on the weekends won’t work but I predict the same reason Sqn 123 doesn’t regularly work with their next nearest Sqn 2654 is the same reason the local ATC and CCF units don’t work together….units on the whole tend to be self-sufficient.
An AT walk tends to be set up with the Sqn in mind, or a climbing session, or museum visit or whatever. It is done with the Squadron’s resources in mind, be that qualified staff or SOVs available.
Adding another unit to that (be it the neighbouring ATC or local CCF) adds complexity often with no additional benefit or outcome other than more bodies attending which is typically only useful if trying to make an event viable.
I suppose the exception to this is the likes of First aid and radio courses (as two quick examples) where 2-3 units coming together helps make the course viable as the hosting Sqn can only muster 4 students, whereas a class of 10 or 12 makes for a much more rewarding day.
We work closely with two CCF units. Sadly they are both quite far away but we enjoy sharing activities with them.
The more local units aren’t interested.
We have a local ACF unit and we explored sharing resources for things like Duke of Edinburghs award, they offered to do some field craft for our bunch if we’d do drill with theres. There were a few plans that were scuppered due to approvals etc but we tried. They then had a staff change and radio silence and 0 interest since then.
This works both ways, by the way. We have invited ATC cadets to take part in a couple of things here recently (e.g. a Blue Leadership course) and had zero takeup. Maybe they don’t like doing things on Sundays. Even our ATC75 parade in 2016 had fairly small takeup from the ATC sqn (who are part of our shared history) and a local voluntary CCF (also part of the same unit originally), though the ATC cadets did a fine job of parading the Corps banner.