Why does the CCF(RAF) generally don’t get along well with the ATC?

Since I do both CCF(RAF) and ATC I figured that it’s pretty amusing to see the banter / hatred against one another. Which really got me thinking is it just a regional thing or does this applies to all? Context both my units are in Central and East region.

I’m short the CCF have a lot more independence than the ATC who they see as too much up their own backside & the ATC see the CCF as too laid back & not doing things properly.

In general though it comes down to the attitude of the staff on how they react to the other cadet forces which the cadets then mimic.

It also varies from unit to unit, my Sqn tends to be quite open to multi cadet working & as such there’s a respect & understanding.

Other ATC are less so accommodating and work with the principle the inter service working means it’s fine the ATC way then throw a hissy fit when it doesn’t work out like that.


There’s also a historical ‘chip on the shoulder’ attitude at times because the CCF used to be seen as producing officers, and the ATC as producing airmen. That’s no longer the case (and hasn’t been for years) but then some people have been in a long time.
The ASTRA changes have made the CCF feel very worried that what makes us different - and in some ways gives us a better experience - is about to be removed. There’s no strong reason for us to fear this but a lot in the CCF are very unsettled at the moment. That might be feeding some of it from the CCF side, too.

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If you look historically, the ATC have always been air cadets, whereas the CCF was formed by the Army, so CCF(RAF) cadets were essentially Army cadets in RAF uniform - hence the wearing of the sponsoring cap badge and the rank of Junior Corporal.

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Back in my day …granted a long time ago in a Region far far away …
Our VGS used to cater to a few CCF’s units …and it was the hair that got most people annoyed and because they were CCF the rules did not seem to apply to them!
… I assume they did?
…I often wondered how they were thought of when on camp if they went with the same mops!

Just as a point of info as others may misinterpret. The RAF sections were formed as part of the Army Officer Training Corps in schools just after the RAF was formed so is closer to the RFC in origin & predate the ADCC by over a decade.

As a CCF(RAF) cadet we all knew about trenchard but not Chaimer because the later just made a community version of what was already running.


It’s a bit more complicated than that: e.g. our RAF unit was, yes, an RAF option in an Army JTC in the 1930s, but then in 1941 we had an ATC squadron and that became the CCF(RAF) section in 1948.


well to be fair just in my CCF Unit alone it’s been only a few years since the last CWO went to RAF Cranwell and got commissioned. Also, it could be because the background of ATC unit cadets tends to come from more working-class families while the CCF(RAF) tends to be in better schools for selective students.

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Also, the ATC does tend to mock the CCF cadets for the rank of Lance Corporal since historically it wasn’t part of the RAF enlisted ranks.

Although ironically it was part of the ADCC (& many lobby for its return to the ATC)

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New way of saying rich kids.


learnt to say that the hard way :slight_smile:

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Be nice or they’ll set their butler on you :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:


Jeeves theres a meany on the internet


Time to release the beagles.


Whether there’s any truth to my feeling or not I don’t know…

I got the idea that because CCF units were generally attached to private / fee paying schools; they were better funded and better supported from a CFAV point of view.

(Happy to be educated if any of my info is incorrect)

“God” was the school headteacher… and generally there wasn’t much involvement with Wings.

Because of greater access to shared equipment such as canoes and tents within the school, there were more opportunities to do varied activities.

CCF would also appeal to Boarders who wanted entertainment at the weekend…

Whereas ATC would have beg borrow and steal - then have to argue over limited resources that were spread across multiple units of not the entire Wing…

Add to the greater concentration of “posh” kids at CCF compared with ATC - the remark earlier about “producing officers v airmen” sounds about right…

I would be intrigued to know how much, if anything IS charged as subs for CCF - and accordingly, how much funding they do receive from their schools, per cadet… compared with the average of £15-20 per month that ATC cadets ou in subs.


Or Grammar!

Our fees are £80 a term for the private school, £40 for the state school (or £0 for the pupil premium kids). Essentially we try to run it so those that can pay subsidise those that can’t.

Currently we’re lucky that the school funds us, but I’ve been on previous contingents where very little funding is provided by the school.

On the whole CCFs do very little at weekends, even those in boarding schools, as teachers are often doing it as part of their job rather than true volunteers.

That being said there is probably a wider range of difference in how much CCFs do than how much different ATC sqns do

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At mine (a govt-funded grammar), it’s £20 per term for CCF. We don’t have any CEP cadets though

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Said then followed by a spit to the side into a spitoon. :rofl::joy::rofl::joy::rofl::joy: