When it comes to flying, even the Brownies are ahead of the ACO


Money? The “Pause” has allowed the restructuring of the VGS system, ostensibly to create a better system, but I’m sure that in reality, it will be turn out to be a cheaper system.*

I’ve no issue with FTRS officers, as long as they provide the service that they are employed to do.

*Although, being the MOD, it will probably end up being twice as expensive to run the new structure, despite there being less aircraft and schools…


I know I’m dragging up and old topic…

I am organising for our Sqnto go flying, and it was only because i stumbled across it.

our Sqn is was a Polish Sqn based out of Blackpool flying spitfires (at one point) I have found a ground spitfire display team based there, and thought it’s a bit of a way for a visit, what else can I do, I then found a company flying a Chippy and Bulldog, enquired to see if we could look round the hangar and they said yes no problem, would you like AEF in the Aircraft as well ? i nearly ripped their arm off.

Communicated this to my OC, he loves the idea, we are going to have to raise about £3k to do this but it’s not every year you get the chance to fly in historic ATC AEF aircraft…

A cheaper option may be to see if you can get pleasure flights on DC3’s or Dragon Rapides, there’s also a DH Dove that you can do a flight around Leeds Castle (In KENT!!)

I am doing this outside of the Civ Com as we are not asking them for funds however they will be informed of what we are doing, it’s not us and them but I am rasing money for a trip I am organising. I have already asked a lot of the Civ Com this year so I don’t want to be too cheeky


Hmmm, ACTO35 (cadets flying in non-Service aircraft) would have been a hurdle to overcome - but I’ve just checked Sharepoint & ACTO35 is no longer listed. :clap:

Does this mean that it is now “free rein” for such flying?? Haven’t heard anything from our R Av O - will ask.


In all honesty I hadn’t checked on it… Surely it’s like paintballing etc… a company has public liability insurance then whats the issue ? their probably will be an issue but I will do my best to get it through!


If there is any policy that has taken over from ACTO35, then no, no & no again! Cadets flying in non-Service aircraft was locked down in a very restrictive manner.


Is this another case of red tape gone mad ?

We have Cadets that havent flown in 2 years (i’m sure other Sqn’s are in the same boat or worse)

The main USP of the RAFAC surely is flying, yet we have lost this so much, i’m sure I read a post about someone saying it’s a good job we can’t be pulled on the trade descriptions act.

I have no knowledge of the “Super Camps” do Cadets still get flying opporunities ? Back in my day (I sound so old) we had the wing run camp at RAF such and such… each Cadet would have the chance to go up in a tutor somewhere even if it meant travelling a few hours down the road.


The 2FTS answer (& this has been discussed at length on other threads) was that they were ensuring a minimum safety standard for cadets to use external flying providers. This also extended to use of gliding facilities via BGA sites. As far as I’m aware, we were the first sqn to be able to so use a BGA site - there was no mention of gliding in ACTO35 initially; 2FTS needed a big prod.

So, in this case, I would be very cautious about organising external flying without your Wg Av O / R Av O being in the loop - note, 2FTS Form 002 (CONSENT FORM – FLIGHT IN NON-SERVICE AIRCRAFT) is still shown on Sharepoint - but it was linked to other processes within ACTO35, so I don’t know if the form still has any relevance. There were plans afoot to have formal links with some BGA sites, but I haven’t heard anything since at least Autumn last year.

The “Super Camps” quite often have “dedicated” Service flying, either via AEF or individual aircraft, such as Chinooks, etc.


Ill ring our Wing Av O tonight.

It would be such a shame for them to not be able to do this, worst case is we still go and look around the hangar and the aircraft, I’m gutted though


Saw this on the BBC … don’t need to be in the Air Cadets, probably do more outside the air cadets and if you wanted a career in aviation, probably the air cadets is not the best place to be, which seems bizarre. I like the fact she wants to get into the engineering side as well. Good on her.


Better to be safe than sorry - it may well be that there is some master plan about to be announced…

Silly me! I’ll go & take my medicine!! :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:


On the plus side I’m told they should be resurfacing the runway at RAF Woodvale so flying should be resumed soon enough, but still the chance to fly in historic ATC aircraft is amazing, I will be doing it myself outside of the corps anyway


Yeah the flying is a no go. I am gutted


Sadly, the rest of us are in no way surprised, such is the ridiculous state we’re in.


I am sure everyone appreciates what you are trying to for the Cadets, but beware that charity and fundraising are both regulated environments, and you are proposing to do this without your Civcom, who are actually the ones enabled by the Law, for such things.

I presume therefore that you intend to set up another Charity, as you would need some means of accounting for the money you come by. AEF as a donation would be much better, except you then fall foul of all the other issues; leads one to conclude that initiative is not to be encouraged.


Pity a like minded group of friends can’t go flying if they can afford it, or as Aries said a flying organisation makes a donation to some local people/ deprived children, good publicity for the flying organisation.


Get the cadets to write to organisations asking if they’d sponsor them for a flight


Nope, I meant I am not asking them for any funds. However since the flying was the majority of the funds I may as well ask them now, the only cost is the minibus / coach £3.50 per head in for Spitfire museum. I wasn’t going to ask the civ com for £3k I was going to organise rasing the funds for the cadets to do it rather than deplete all reserves.


You do need to get the CWC involved just to protect yourself wrt accounting for the money. They are the holders of the squadron purse, even if you raise the money in whatever way it has to go through the books.
As I allude if you can get the cadets to write to organisations and an organisation sponsors them, OK it would be a completely private affair, but it doesn’t go through the books and someone on the CWC has to account for the money going on an “illegal activity”.
Slightly related I had a couple of dads organise paintball “birthday parties”, parents pay and away the cadets go as private individuals, have a whale of a time. Sometimes you need to think laterally.
If I thought I could persuade an organisation to sponsor / fund cadets going flying / gliding, I would be on it like a shot, but it’s an expensive thing.


Sad to say, but I thought that the most likely answer - but better to know now, rather than fund raise, waste a lot of time & effort, & then find out.

What was the reason given? Any other information concerning the future options, etc?


I’d take a punt though and say that being a member of the cadets would probably improve one’s chances in the selection programme for such things.