At my sqn, promotions are just around the corner and staff have a good idea of which cadets they would like to join the NCO team. There is one cadet in particular who believes he is at the top of the list as ‘staff have told him so’. This has made the cadet become majorly cocky and think they are better than everyone. We have had parents come in to complain about them because they have upset fellow cadets. Despite all this, he still carries on doing what he’s doing and a lot of people are starting to get annoyed. He talks back to the NCO’s and tells cadets that he is better than them and that they won’t have any chance of being promoted because he is getting it (he said it to one of the most senior cadets there that everyone likes and everyone wants to get promoted). The cadet then goes on to suck up to staff so staff think nothing is wrong. Has anyone got any ideas on how the NCO’s are able to reprimand the cadet a final time in hopes he will definitely stop? Thank you in advance for any advice given, it will be majorly appreciated.
Have you spoke to your staff? If so what did they do?
My advice would be to not promote him. When he inevitably comes around to the office to ask as to why he wasn’t promoted let him know of all the complaints he’s been the cause of, and tell him to wind down a little. He’s still a cadet and he doesn’t have the seniority that he thinks he does.
Promote him and you’d merely be encouraging that behaviour, and if that’s how a model NCO performs imagine how the rest of the cadets would wind up. Give him some time to mature, he’ll be ready by the next promotions (hopefully!)
The staff listened to the complaints and I believe our staff Flight Sergeant spoke to him so he stopped for about a week and the carried on again the next week. As many times as he has been told to stop, he just starts back up again not long after.
I completely understand your point as that is what all us cadets and NCO’s think. However, staff only ever seem to see the good side of him so if he is promoted then either cadets are going to turn out like him or they will just leave because they are scared of him.
Yep agree wholeheartedly.
I have come across cadets like this in my time and to not promoted them, even if they are the best candidate results in one of two outcomes, they leave or get the message.
However, what I would say to the cadets getting the hump, what you are seeing happens at school and work, so get used to it.
Where you will get people getting the nod they will be prefects or head boy/girl or the workplace promotion is theirs and ensure everyone knows and where no amount of complaining has the slightest impact. Although it is only a figurehead post for photos and standing saying how wonderful the schools is, our kids knew who was going to be head boy and girl and at school, although they do a staff vote, you know who it will be, as they will be mostly sporty types who have been in school teams or have achieved success in something people feel is notable. At work, you watch for those who play golf or something similar, are “on the square” and or have ingratiated themselves with senior managers.
So while in the ATC a few moans might achieve the aim of preventing or deferring promotion, because people don’t like them for whatever reason, outside the Corps, at school or work it won’t achieve a thing. So although I’ve been party to not promoting cadets on those grounds, is it really fair on them, to not promote them, just because of some moans and gripes? Unless the cadet is a bit of a shambles appearance wise, then not promoting them on the basis of the example they set is fair enough.
I’m assuming you’re an NCO right?
If so, do you guys not have a brief meeting with staff, or the OC at least, at the end of the parade night? Surely that’s a chance for you to feedback general behaviour during the night and report how certain individuals have been performing seeing as you’re in direct contact with them.
If you guys don’t have meetings then when you have the chance during break, go to your OC or any other staff, with other NCOs and be straightforward and honest. Don’t try to sugarcoat it and let your OC know the risks with letting him get promoted.
I especially agree with this. I guess we are preparing the cadets for life outside of school, and it wouldn’t be a bad idea to teach them of the unjust system nowadays, but surely we wouldn’t want to encourage such behaviour, and seeing as they have a chance to stop it from developing the staff and the NCOs should assume it as their responsibility to stop this behaviour from perpetuating.
Honestly it’s a thing of maturity to be honest, once he sees that his behaviour is having a detrimental impact on his livelihood as a cadet/cadet corporal, he’s sure to fix up soon enough
I’d make sure that this is passed to staff again. If you don’t communicate this issue then they will be completely blind to it and it will continue. If they are acting like this as a cadet, then I can’t see them being an effective JNCO.
You mentioned they have “upset other cadets”. How did this happen exactly? If it is this serious then it could possibly be bullying.
Didn’t see that earlier, good spot! Imagine the abuse of power if they got into the role of Corporal, seeing as he’s bad enough as a cadet.
If this cadet is being treated badly in their eyes ie comments to staff etc etc getting him a talking to, could he not suggest he’s being bullied, picked on, singled out, because people just don’t like him?
Bullying is as broad as it is long and not as straightforward as it used to be, ie the fat kids, one with spots or glasses, not into sports getting picked on, the way bullying is now perceived and what is regarded as bullying it makes it very difficult.
If he’s been told or it’s even been hinted at strongly by the staff, that he’s in line for promotion, this problem is of the staff’s own doing and they should take the blame for the situation that has arisen. May be take this back to staff at the squadron and say they’re to blame.
Very true. As a Cadet Sergeant right now, I can relate heavily to what it’s like being a cadet, thinking you should be the first person to be promoted and become a cpl as soon as possible, but being overtaken by newer cadets because they sweetened up staff gave me a wake up call. I stopped being so cocky and buckled down, matured up a bit and hey presto.
Furthermore, I think it’s our responsibility though to make sure the parents are informed about what’s happening. If he’s causing major issues between himself and the other cadets his parents should really be told.
Parents should be informed but with the caveat that the staff have helped create the situation.
The only “sweetening up” that happens is cadets putting themselves “out there” and doing everything. This is still my main criteria, when asked, outside being smart and courteous, as you want NCOs to be the ones who can ‘drag’ newer cadets into the habit of getting involved.
One of the flies in the ointment are children of staff. These invariably mostly are smart and get involved more than some others, and get promoted which riles other cadets as they think the only reason they’ve been promoted because one or more of their parents are involved in the squadron. However I find the irony of watching Trooping the Colour and how many senior relations seem to follow into the regts and then get key jobs on the parade. So a bit of nepotism in the ATC is nothing.
As he has previously told cadets that they ‘weren’t good enough’ or ‘wouldn’t get to his level’ which is honestly so childish of him. We had mentioned it to him and he said he was sorry but it still happens
Yes I am an NCO, we have a quick talk to staff if we are duty NCO just after final parade, however whenever I have been duty NCO, he cools it down a bit, it only ever seems to happen when certain NCO’s are on duty. I am unaware if they mentioned it to staff, although staff have been informed by the parents of other cadets so they are aware of the situation although I believe it hasn’t been fully dealt with
Maybe you could start implementing a NCO and Staff meeting every night, or every couple of nights, to give the NCOs a chance to fill them in on what happened during the night and update them with anything that they should be concerned about. Also an easy way for OC and staff to pass on any messages they need to give you guys only.
Talk to your OC and see if he/she is open with the idea
I will definitely suggest the idea, thankyou so much!
No problem!
I empower my ncos to feel free to clme and give me feedback…i then approach it open minded or observe it myself to see if it is true. If i had witnessed this i would not promote said cadet and give him honest feedback on why.
A lot of Squadron’s have these individuals… despite what you say and think, the staff have probably noticed the behavior but using the chain of command is the right way if it’s that bad. Anyone who ignores what their NCO’s are saying is going to regret promoting someone like this as it could bring the Squadron down in numbers.
Just throwing this out there… have you tried speaking to the individual concerned? is there a personality clash between you and them? As an NCO, you clearly outrank him now so could you have a chat? The sort of chat I’m thinking of would be along the lines of… (lets call him cadet pain…).
You: Cadet Pain, come and find me during canteen as there is something important we need to discuss. Make sure you do as it will be to your advantage that we speak.
Cdt Pain: Yes Cpl, Sgt etc… if he says no or doesn’t turn up then that becomes a different issue.
Take Cdt Pain outside so that you can walk and chat…
You at the chat: From where I sit it looks like you think you will be promoted however, if you are going to join the exclusive team of NCO’s there is something you need to know… At the moment you are building an environment where the cadets do not respect you. This may be fine for you however, it will mean that should you become a Cpl you will have great difficulty in motivating cadets and life as an NCO will be difficult. The main message from me is that you need to earn respect and this doesn’t just come with the promotion. I’m sure you have lots of things to say about this but I’m telling you now that its going to be a long a lonely road if you can’t act like an NCO now and start building that respect.
You: Do you want to know what I mean by building respect. It could be that you don’t realise what you are doing wrong and we could work together to reset this.
The key to this chat is that you are an NCO with the experience he needs…if he interrupts you simply say “OK but let me finish what I’m saying and then we can talk about that”.
The other aspect with this is that he would be joining your team of NCO’s, this means that he needs to build respect and trust with that team. If all the NCO’s do not get together and train this individual it will get very messy should he get promoted. Have the entire NCO team given up on this individual or could they turn him around?
Good luck.