What is the right rank to call a staff cadet?

cadet
staff
ranks

#1

Hi all,

I have been in cadets from the age of 16 to now in 10 months turning 19.

I am a staff cadet with no NCO rank in me. But I have be called by staff and 2 of the Cdt WO as a staff cadet. Not just the rank of cadet.

Which rank name am I. Because I think as I am wearing the rank slides of staff cadet I should be called staff cadet or staff cadet with last name. Not just cadet or cadets with last names?


#2

You rank is Cadet and that’s what you should be addressed as.

Having a Staff Cadet rank slide doesn’t change your rank it just shows that you are over the age 18 nothing more and nothing less.


#3

That k you for your opinion. But I have got told by FSgt and sgts of the RAFAC that to call me staff cadets.


#4

But I think if you are a staff cadet you are not just wearing the rank slide to show mainly staff that you are over the age of 18. But for cadets/staff to call you staff cadet. Because it then tells people and show people that you have higher duite and responsibility then a cadet.

What do officers and any other rank think of this?


#5

I agree with Daws here, and the staff advising you may be wrong. I have found nothing in policy or documentation to suggest that Staff cadets need to be referred to as such. It is not a rank in itself, just a flag that the cadet in question is an adult. The Staff Cadet rank slide (as was the Instructor Cadet slides and white tapes before it) is solely an indicator of over-18 service.

“Staff Cadet” is a type of membership, as is “Cadet”, “CFAV”, “Civcom”, “Registered CivCom”

Rank is a different construct that runs beside that. Cadets and Staff Cadets share a rank structure, while Uniformed CFAV have a separate rank structure.

A Cadet FS is superior in rank to a Staff Cadet Sgt or below, though the Staff Cadet, as an adult, has the responsibility to intercede if there is a welfare concern.

In writing we may preface a cadet’s rank with “Cadet” or “Staff Cadet” purely for clarity, but this is seldom spoken and routinely ignored. For the most part it is not particularly relevant to what we do in the daily programme, but becomes handy when we need to worry about supervision ratios or accommodation.

Edit:
This is a quote from ACP20 PI501 para 5 that implies that rank and staff cadet status are separate. My bold.:

Staff cadets should be given as much supervisory and organisational responsibility as their rank, individual ability, experience, qualifications and personal qualities allow.


#6

The Staff Cadets slides (notice how I didn’t put rank slides) show people that the person wearing them is 18 or over. It tells people that you are an adult whilst still being in the Cadets. It doesn’t change your rank, nor change what you are called. From what I can read, you are a Cadet which is now 18. You still hold the rank of cadet, you are still called ‘Cadet Surname.’ Nothing changes about that. You are not higher than other Cadets at your squadron, you cannot take over parade from NCOs, you cannot take over a parade if an under 18 Cadet is taking it. In easy terms, you are not special so ignore what everyone else isn’t saying that you have talked to because they are wrong.


#7

It’s not for them to call you anything, it’s to differentiate you from cadets who are under 18.

I’d call you cadet.


#8

We don’t go about calling Staff Cadets of other ranks Staff Cadet Cpl or Staff Cadet Sergeant, we call them Cpl and Sgt the same as we do for their under 18 colleagues, the same principle applies to Cadets who are over 18 and have not managed to be promoted, they continue to be addressed as Cadet because that is their rank.


#9

Thank you all.

But I have been told by a pilot officer and a flight lieutenant that I have got more responsibility and duite to follow then a Cdt of a Cdt with a rank under FSgt. As like the following:

If the cadets in the squad are not listening or following Commando I can say something to make sure that will not happen again and teach the cadets the correct way. Or take over as a leader and speak to them personally.

If NCO are not sure what they are going to do for the parade and they need to talk privately but can’t leave any cadets not rank out side by them self I then can take over if it is no more then 10 cadet if more need a cadets with a rank or staff to be here with me.


#10

That doesn’t mean you’re not still a cadet though.

You just happen to sometimes be the adult in the room.

The two things aren’t connected. I’d expect any senior cadet to do that, regardless of their age.

You may well have those ‘duties’ (though I’d argue it’s not a duty as such), but that doesn’t convey a different title. You’re a cadet. End of story.


#11

This isn’t what they meant. You’re legally an adult, so in a mixed group you would be able to raise concerns about safety or safeguarding issues.

What you haven’t gained is an ability to circumvent the chain of command. A 14 year old corporal outranks you as far as the chain of command and discipline go.

And as for the two examples you gave go, don’t do the former. You will more than likely annoy the other cadets, and if you upstaged an NCO in such a manner you would not be popular with them either.

You are correct on the latter example, but cadets don’t need an adult present if they are only outside within the perimeter. So it may not happen.


#12

With respect, you think wrong…

Yours is a tricky situation to be in.
As an over-18 cadet you can take a certain legal responsibility for supervision of cadets under 18 years old, but as a cadet you rank below all NCOs regardless of their age. In the situations you describe the Cdt FS is in charge (and three ranks higher than you) so you follow his or her orders just like any other cadet. Being a staff cadet doesn’t give you authority to ‘step out’ and take over from the Cdt FS.
Your responsibility takes precedence if, for example, the Cdt FS orders something that it unsafe or otherwise unsuitable and which presents a safety or safeguarding concern. Then it’s your responsibility to politely (because they still outrank you by 3) stipulate that such-and-such is unsuitable.

There is absolutely nothing which says that a Cadet can’t be in command of more than 10 cadets, but a Cadet NCO can.
That’s nonsense.
The only regulation with regards to ratios is that of general supervision. An event requires a certain Staff:Cadet ratio; generally that is 10 cadets to one staff member present (night time events and fieldcraft have lower ratios).
I.e, if you have 40 cadets on an event there should normally be 4 staff as a minimum. As a Staff Cadet you can help supplement that ratio but you cannot take sole charge of cadets - there must also be CFAVs present.
“Present” means in the vicinity, rather than “there next to you”.

You could for example take command of a parade night of 40 cadets - just as any other cadet or cadet NCO could - provided that there are sufficient numbers of staff ‘in the office’ that night; but you couldn’t take any cadets at all to an event all on your own, and nor could any other cadet, NCO or not.

All of this should have been explained to you on your AVIP course. If you have signed a form accepting the increased legal responsibility for supervision of cadets under 18 then even more so you need to be aware of what your responsibilities and limitations are…
I might suggest you ask your staff to point you in the direction of ACP 20 and have a good read.
It’s important that you are fully informed about the role you have taken on.


#13

Thanks you all for your time and opinions on the matter. I just want to have a more of a understanding thanks you.

And I have read acp 20 and the others in detail.
But I may have to re look at them.

To just ask as all said above I am not higher then NCO or others.

But if a female staff cadet cpl and a male cpl cadet. How has the most duties and responsibilities and power?


#14

That’s not quite accurate a Staff Cadet can run an activity or event without Staff present (with the exception of Parade Evenings or Overnight Activities).

So if you had a Staff Cadet who held an NGB qualification they could for example run their activity at a weekend without any staff present. (The 2 person rule would still apply but that second person could also be a Staff Cadet). The same would hold true for say a Band Practice at the squadron on a Sunday Morning or even a Parade.

The key bit however is what Incubus quoted earlier, such Staff responsibility should be in keeping with that persons rank. So where you might let an Over 18 FS run a Band Practice with an Over 18 Cdt or Cpl supporting uoubwould be unlikely to let 2 Over 18 Cadets do the same as they haven’t demonstrated the required level of responsibility for independent supervision.


#15

They are both the same rank neither has more than the other, although 1 may be Senior by virtue of time on rank. I can think of only 2 specific situations where the Staff Cadet would be “more responsible”.

  1. Where the Staff Cadet is the “Activity Commander” this would be for a non-parade night activity where no member of staff were present in which case the chain of Command for that event would be made very clear (in theory their would be a Bader Application and the Staff Cadet would have logged in and ticked the box as Activity Commander to show that they had read and understood all of the risk assessments. (Very few OC’s would entrust a Cpl with that Level of responsibility even if they were over 18).

2). There is an activity taking place, Staff are supervising remotely and something dangerous or safeguarding is about to happen, at which point they Staff Cadet has a positive obligation as an adult to say something.


#16

Cadet FS (aged 16) wants to march the cadets down the M25… you as a Staff Cadet are obliged to stop this from a Duty of Care / Safeguarding position.

Slight exaggeration, but you get the point, this is the only time you are different and “above” the FS, otherwise your just another cadet enjoying your hobby.


#17

Anyone can raise concerns about safety and safeguarding, there’s no age magic bullet or special information via the requirement to do a course.


#18

Agreed, but certain people have an obligation to, no?


#19

Yes and no, if can live with the potential consequences for someone else, you may feel there is something not quite right and say nothing.
In modern times with fractured and little community people turn a blind eye as not getting involved or saying anything prevents problems for them.
Many cases in the papers etc could probably have been circumvented if a neighbour, friend or family member said something.


#21

I disagree. In many cases, things were said and either not taken seriously or ignored for deliberate, malicuous reasoning. But that was the times, it hasn’t completely disappeared, however it is nothing like it used to be.

Many people spoke out about Jimmy Saville. He was reported to many NHS trusts.

We hear and see more because of the new attitudes enforced with appropriate training. Nowadays, 99% of the time if something isn’t right, people say something. This is especially the case if people have appropriate training.