What is a military style boot?

Recently I had to re-educate one of our pace stick wielding brethren on what constituted suitable footwear for No 3 uniform.
AP 1358C only states;

Blockquote j. Boots. Black or Brown combat style boot

The DI in question stated that boots had be polished and proceeded to tell two cadets that they had purchased the “wrong boots” and had to buy new boots suitable for polishing. I stated to the DI that AP1358C was silent on the construction, materials used and importantly the polishablilty of boots and he was making up a rule. He was not happy and duly checked AP1358c to prove all was polished in the DI world. He promptly proved himself wrong.

This does bring up an interesting question. How many of the rules that have been peddled over the years are not rules but convention and the rule book is silent or the very least ambiguous. Add to this that much equipment etc needs to be purchased by individuals or units. What the rules and do they need to be clarified or is a little wiggle room good?

Recent issues, unit identifier colours are just convention with no specification. As mentioned above what are military style boots. Hair, What is meant by “well cut”? Why are the rules for girls different? Many are saying for girls off the collar when this is wrong.

Usually when you add “Combat” to a boot, the price increases!!
I wear my brown walking boots with my MTP as I’m not shelling out for a set of boots that is only worn infrequently!!

As previously quoted “Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools”

But I have found one I like even more! “Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist.”

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As far as the RAF is concerned, a compact boot is a boot that they issue their personnel for that purpose.
They issue a range of boots these days - it is no longer the case that troops need to put up with the standard, poor-quality combat boot and break them in by standing in a bath of pee (or whatever)

I would suggest that if it looks combat-bootish and is around 8 eyelets high it is probably fine. That would cover boots with fabric sides (comfy magnum style) as well as all-leather models.

This is expensive kit the cadets need to purchase themselves. We cannot allow us to be too prescriptive about the particulars. If it looke like a “combat boot” (and not a hiking boot) I would say it is complaint.

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Latest issue MOD boots actually are totally like hiking boots. I am following the advice my OC wing gave me - let the cadets wear polishable black shoes (they don’t have to be military DMS) with their No.2 dress and any boot in a muted colour (black, brown, grey, green, for example) with their No.3s.

Too far…

I disagree. Without a reliable source of new DMS shoes (at a reasonable price), we need to be happy with something that is close as we can make it to the “ideal”.

This is a key area where I believe the dress regs are failing the organisation they are meant to serve.

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Seconded - although wonder how serious A440m was when posting.

for completeness - new starters are advised to wear their school shoes until such time they get DMS shoes - for some that is next week - others next year depending on financial position of the family.

the standards “clean and polished” happily can be applied to either style shoe

Round here that seems to be trainers!

Don’t overlook any footwear requirements made in the risk assessments for foot drill (ref parade shoes) and fieldcraft (ref combat boots).

Ohh! That’s controversial!! But very practical and understandable!

What have the clothing rules protectors said?

Im one of those pace stick wielding lunatics however i struggle to challenge (and i dont) cadets on not having the right kit (boots,shoes,greens etc) I know a regional commandant is on this same wave length and is pushing conversation around it in the ivory towers.

I do feel Squadrons could do a better job educating cadets on what to go for though. I give my cadets links as an ideal but encourage conversation with parents around what to buy.

Define either of those!
Should all Parade shoes be leather or rubber soled? Officers are (or were) issued leather soled shoes, do should all parade shoes be checked to see if they are rubber soled?
I challenge you to give us the definition of a combat boot! Not even the MoD can do that.

Writing such things in Risk Assessments mean that the author hasn’t thought about the risks
Parade footwear for the QCS and the Guards are ammo boots, extremely treacherous on icy or other smooth surfaces. But I challenge anyone to tell Garrison Sgt Major Vern Stokes that he can’t go on parade because his boots are dangerous!!

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It’s not that easy though, particularly with female shoes, they appear to be made of Unicorn pooh these days!

Yeah…ive looked at getting a set of oxfords…would need to remortgage the house!

You’ve been doing it wrong…

Do you stand in them and pee in the bath then?

No, you pee in the boots, then stand in the bath.

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I get the point completely - especially for less fortunate cadets. But there’s a lot of cheap brands of toecap oxford shoes out there that look like parade shoes - and a lot of surplus shops do proper issue DMS for under £20.

I’ve found mine (proper ex issue in G1 or better) on eBay for £10…

That’s exactly what I mean. And let’s say said unfortunate cadet can only afford one pair of smart black shoes - they could fine wear their DMS/oxfords/etc to school and cadets