You are preaching to the Choir. We’re also not allowed to wear MTP as she doesn’t like us wearing it.[/quote]
her name can only be Dawn and initials McC to have such a stance and get away with it :lol:
Nope, the rules are the same for male and female. I trust you'll be challenging her to back up her conviction...[/quote]
Does anyone know why cadets can’t wear short sleeved shirts - you’d think it’d be a better solution for the summer months then rolling sleeves up.
[quote=“incubus” post=22596]Long-sleeved Wedgwood blue shirt is always worn with a tie whether or not a jersey is also worn.
Short-sleeved Wedgwood blue shirt is never worn with a tie and is never worn with a jersey.[/quote]
I’m reading this through a haze of hot toddy and paracetamol, so let me please confirm some key factors here:
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The ACO has now formally returned to the original classic RAF dress regulation that could effectively be summarised as “Jumpers with wedgewood shirts? Must be worn with a tie”. Yes?
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Do the current AP1358 dress regulations, for the regular RAF and it’s active reserves make an identical ruling, or do they permit personnel to (in summary) wear wedgewood shirts open necked under jumpers?
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Where do wedgewood blouses, worn by female uniformed staff, sit with this return to a classic mode of RAF dress within the ACO? I take it that (like short-sleeved tie-less shirts) they should now not be worn under jumpers? Also, does this apply in the non-ACO world context of Para2 above (I do believe a certain highly-respected female 1 star Officer might be personally sorry to see the loss of such a dress option)
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Here is a contentious comment from me, but I don’t care. I have a bee in my bonnet any time I see a photograph of (eg) Camp formal photographs or picture of drill competitions or photos from some airshows, which show the Cadets fully formally buttoned & tie-ed and often jumpered, yet the staff are happily wearing short sleeves. I feel extremely uncomfortable when I see this, so much so that I’d probably argue there’s a justification for it to made not so, by regulation. I just don’t get the fairness in that, if someone can convince me otherwise, crack on.
wilf_san
- yes
- The RAF changed their rules and we got dragged along after them
- no ties. Not clear if jerseys can be worn with them but hopefully clarification will follow
- I agree - everyone should dress at the same general level of formality.
[quote=“incubus” post=22631]1. yes
2. The RAF changed their rules and we got dragged along after them
3. no ties. Not clear if jerseys can be worn with them but hopefully clarification will follow
4. I agree - everyone should dress at the same general level of formality.[/quote]
I’ve just had a glance at the freshest AP1358 (not “C”, the full bhuna 6th Ed to AL18, taken from the main raf.mod.uk website), and it appears that the regular RAF and it’s active reserves now have formally reverted to exactly the same neck-tie position as the ACO.
You’re wearing a jumper, and a L/S wedgewood shirt? That’ll be with a tie then. Always.
And if you think the weather’s warm enough to wear an S/S wedgewood shirt, but then the wind picks up…? Don’t add a jumper. At all. Jacket, yes, jumper no.
wilf_san
Actually, latest version is 1.06. 1.05 only lasted a couple of weeks.
(expect 1.07 out by March 15)[/quote]
now half way through April…any further update on 1.07???
Not that I’ve heard.
Sigh :huh:
Anything major change
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Berets in CS95 and PCS for CIs now.
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When did Air Cadet Central get a SATT team? :woohoo:
[attachment=229]ACOSATTTRFs.jpg[/attachment]
I wonder if the Web Cadet Corps will get a SATT too! 
Noticed that the latest version of AP1358 (non-C) now appears to officially-permit the wearing of black tie with short-sleeved wedgewoods…under jumpers, obviously.
Wonder if AP1358C V1.08 will include that?
(Not that anyone in the history of No.2 dress short-sleeved shirts has ever done that in reality, before now…!-)
wilf_san
Note that this DOES NOT apply to uniformed CFAV adult staff, as it is a quote from AP1358 AL19 for regulars / active reserves.
[QUOTE]0318…When not wearing a proscribed order of dress, a short sleeve shirt may be worn under a jersey with the addition of a tie.[/QUOTE]
[I]Regardless of that[/I], I still have a serious problem about seeing any adult staff wearing open-neck/short-sleeves, at an event (or competition etc) but with the Cadets being required to wear ties/long sleeves plus even jumpers…especially a formal inspection.
I entirely fail to see how this can be justified, and invite readers to give examples of where else this unequal dress would be allowed to happen, anywhere else in the world, outwith the ACO (when reviewing/presenting staff would be wearing an order of dress at most two levels below that of those personnel being reviewed/presented to, and where common-sense and military tradition would dictate an equivalent or higher order of dress to be worn by the staff)…in your own time, carry on.
It makes me particularly uneasy when/if it’s captured in formal photographs.
Comments?
wilf_san
[quote=“wilf_san” post=25570]Note that this DOES NOT apply to uniformed CFAV adult staff, as it is a quote from AP1358 AL19 for regulars / active reserves.
[QUOTE]0318…When not wearing a proscribed order of dress, a short sleeve shirt may be worn under a jersey with the addition of a tie.[/QUOTE]
[I]Regardless of that[/I], I still have a serious problem about seeing any adult staff wearing open-neck/short-sleeves, at an event (or competition etc) but with the Cadets being required to wear ties/long sleeves plus even jumpers…especially a formal inspection.
I entirely fail to see how this can be justified, and invite readers to give examples of where else this unequal dress would be allowed to happen, anywhere else in the world, outwith the ACO (when reviewing/presenting staff would be wearing an order of dress at most two levels below that of those personnel being reviewed/presented to, and where common-sense and military tradition would dictate an equivalent or higher order of dress to be worn by the staff)…in your own time, carry on.
It makes me particularly uneasy when/if it’s captured in formal photographs.
Comments?
wilf_san[/quote]
It’s a VRT-ism. One that makes my blood boil and should be stamped out wherever seen.
Wild - agreed. Very poor. If the cadets are wearing ties at an event, so should the staff. Normal day to day is a little different.
Interesting AP extract. I’ve never seen anyone do that. With the re-introduction of the round neck sweater, having an open neck short sleeved shirt underneath seems the norm for most.
[quote=“chaz” post=25665]Wild - agreed. Very poor. If the cadets are wearing ties at an event, so should the staff. Normal day to day is a little different.
Interesting AP extract. I’ve never seen anyone do that. With the re-introduction of the round neck sweater, having an open neck short sleeved shirt underneath seems the norm for most.[/quote]
Read the rest of the thread. Staff aren’t allowed to wear jumpers without ties at all anymore. Hence this update.