Thats all well and good if you have enough greens and boots on sqn
if a Sqn has enough decent civilian walking gear to dish out then thats the best, if perhaps least likely option - however most Sqns have some DPM, and most of the Sqnâs iâve dealt with have quite a lot of DPM.
even then, if the Sqn has no DPM and the cadet has to put their hand in their parents pocket, buying DPM is cheaper than buying civvy, and you can use it for Shooting, Fieldcraft, Flying and camp, as well as it being OK, if not brilliant, for AT.
ÂŁ60 will fit a cadet out in trousers, shirt, smock and boots, and another ÂŁ30 will get waterproofs. not only will ÂŁ90 not get you very far in Cotswold or Blacks, but the cadet will still need DPMâs to do the fun stuff in the ACO.
if a Sqn has enough decent civilian walking gear to dish out then thats the best, if perhaps least likely option - however most Sqns have some DPM, and most of the Sqnâs iâve dealt with have quite a lot of DPM.
even then, if the Sqn has no DPM and the cadet has to put their hand in their parents pocket, buying DPM is cheaper than buying civvy, and you can use it for Shooting, Fieldcraft, Flying and camp, as well as it being OK, if not brilliant, for AT.
ÂŁ60 will fit a cadet out in trousers, shirt, smock and boots, and another ÂŁ30 will get waterproofs. not only will ÂŁ90 not get you very far in Cotswold or Blacks, but the cadet will still need DPMâs to do the fun stuff in the ACO.[/quote]
I do agree with you but with the change over to MTP upon us it would be a bit daft to buy CS95âs now
I have never purchased any clothing specifically for âexpedâ type activities, âbase layerâ, âmid layerâ and outer layer, all get worn in everyday situations. I do not specify that parents or cadets buy things specifically for exped work either. The only items I stess as an initial purchase are boots, socks, a sleeping bag and maybe a waterproof coat. Even then their use is not limited to cadet activities. My cooker always goes in the boot when we go out, so we can have a fresh brew (avoids getting ripped off for a cuppa), although initially it was to heat up the kids milk/food when they were little.
I bet that your average cadet has got a wardrobe, cupboard and drawers containing everyday clothes suitable for exped work. I fully appreciate the parental plight of buying clothes for children and this is why I advocate things that are multi-use. I hated buying school badged things as they were effectively single use. They werenât going to wear it outside of school time.
Balance this against DPM and those who get extremely precious, almost anal, about people wearing it outside of a cadet activity, especially when you stick trfs etc all over them, supplied or purchased, it does become a âone trick ponyâ. BTW I donât get precious about wearing DPM either, itâs ideal for gardening!!
i went to a Wing AT weekend at Oakhampton some years ago where some of the cadets were doing DofE stuff - the anality of the WATTO and the DofE Assessor team (all VRT/SNCO) was such that the kids doing DofE walks werenât allowed to wear service bootsâŚ
there are people in the ACO who really, really need to be gripped hard about what matters and what doesnât.
Well said I think, there are a lot of people who just canât afford expensive kit so although not ideal but sometimes necessary 1 pair of boots does all should not prohibit a young person from achieving a very worthwhile goal.
I sometimes think there is an elitism style of attitude amoung some staff, if the young person is safe and their kit provides some form of protection (at least supporting the ankles and good grip, protection from the weather) then this should be good enough.
No they should not be dressed to go on section attacks but come on lets have some common sense.
i went to a Wing AT weekend at Oakhampton some years ago where some of the cadets were doing DofE stuff - the anality of the WATTO and the DofE Assessor team (all VRT/SNCO) was such that the kids doing DofE walks werenât allowed to wear service bootsâŚ
there are people in the ACO who really, really need to be gripped hard about what matters and what doesnât.[/quote]
Are DPM/MTP still not allowed for DofE?
Nope and not for AT expeditions/hikes.
But then unlike FMS you donât need to have specialist/specific clothing for DofE etc. My only tilt to specialist kit are one pair of boots, leather that Iâve had for 27 years, that only come out in wet weather and proper hills, but my normal boots like my general clothing and cooking kit (many a brew and meals for the kids on days out) and I wear and use them for things other than AT.
There is also a ban on service personnel doing AT in No 3 uniform.
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Why is everyone obsessed with DPM and MTP for DOE, thereâs much better kit out there!
If i had the choice, I wouldnât be wearing DPM and I certainly wouldnât be wearing that PCS utter turd!
Because other kit costs money that cadets might not have.
For many cadets especially in Urban areas Bronze DofE might be the first outdoors experience that cadets receive, they have already gone out and bought greens itâs a big ask to tell patents to spend yet more money.
We have gone out and purchased a supply of waterproofs for the Squadron which we loan out to cadets, they arenât top of the range and for Silver or Gold cadets will need to look at buying a decent set but they are servicable and better than the cheap pac-a-macs that Iâve seen cadets turn upto Bronze with all too often.
I agree completely, why on earth youâd want to wear DPM doing DofE or AT, baffles me.
Itâs a cadet thing mainly encouraged by the numpties in the ATC who are obsessed with it and insist on wearing it at every opportunity. We were doing First Aid and cadets were doing it in civvies, which caused comment from the chap who was assessing it as it seems every other sqn do it in DPM.
I went to another unit to discuss a parade and they were doing radio in greens, when we do it itâs in blues.
But I am of the era when you had one uniform and did everything in it, if it got dusty you brushed it off and got with your life. Itâs amazing when a cadet leaves they bring all manner of kit, we gave back blues and maybe coveralls.
[quote=âdaws1159, post:31, topic:835, full:trueâ]
Because other kit costs money that cadets might not have.
For many cadets especially in Urban areas Bronze DofE might be the first outdoors experience that cadets receive, they have already gone out and bought greens itâs a big ask to tell patents to spend yet more money.
We have gone out and purchased a supply of waterproofs for the Squadron which we loan out to cadets, they arenât top of the range and for Silver or Gold cadets will need to look at buying a decent set but they are servicable and better than the cheap pac-a-macs that Iâve seen cadets turn upto Bronze with all too often.[/quote]
Cadets will have all manner of clothing in cupboards that are ideal for general wearing for AT / DofE. Iâd lay money theyâve got 'track suits, sports tops, jumpers, sweatshirts etc that are more than OK for the majority of the AT we do. We used to do a fair bit of walking as a family on holidays and apart from a waterproof and some boots, the kids wore ordinary clothes.
The problem is that give the cadets a kit list and parents panic and think theyâve got to go Blacks, Go Outdoors et al and spend a small fortune, when it fact there are shops that will sell perfectly serviceable clothes their kids can wear for other things. Unless youâve got a load of label obessed kids, when this might not be the case.
I agree that waterproofs can be problem and weâve got some to loan, along with cookers and a few rucksacks weâve had donated over the years.
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Well, if itâs a cadet activity, then it makes sense that the ACO provides a basic supply. And if they have their own they can wear that.
Some could argue that it could count as PPE and as such should be supplied by the ACO much like hearing defence is supplied on a range.
I was quite curious about the reasons why we need new kit when greens works fine. I see what you are all saying, but even if not a lot is spent, how much of the kit would I reuse? I doubt much of it even in cadets.
The trouble with greens is two fold. Firstly they are designed to make you less visible, which is not a good idea from the supervisor and assessing perspective, or in extreme cases in case of MR or similar trying to find you. True that bit can be overcome by judicious use of hi viz bibs etc.
The secondary thing is that generally most DPM etc type kit is heavy and slow to dry much like jeans and they arenât suitable kit for the great outdoors either.
At Bronze level there may be sensible reasons to use the rules as a guide, but not when you get into any more exposed countryside.
All my opinion of course.
other than gaining the experience part of the idea of AT and particularly DofE is to give you the confidence to do the same yourself in later life.
if you and some mates fancied a weekend camping you have the experience (and kit) to do so. you know what worksâŚ
how many people actually re-use it in such an example i cannot say but that is how i see itâŚ
What??? Most DPM and MTP clothing produced since the introduction of S95 is lightweight and dries very quickly, especially trousers. There are designed to be used in the great outdoorsâŚ
I wouldnât be a fan of expeditions in full uniform, however it seems ridiculous to me that cadets are issued with trousers that are very comfortable (I think so anyway!), lightweight, quick drying and breathable, and are not allowed to wear them on expeditions. There are more suitable trousers out there, but this kit is very attractively priced!
Cadets will already own sufficient tracksuit bottoms, t-shirts and jumpers, there is no real reason for them to need to wear DPM.
Waterproofs is slightly different and if itâs tipping it down I would rather a cadet whack on a decent DPM gortex jacket thatâs going to keep them dry than some ÂŁ5 piece of crap from Matalan. They can always stick a high-viz vest over the top to be seen.
But since thatâs not allowed we have spent a lot of money as a unit (ÂŁ10K) on out doors kit so that we can make sure our cadets have the right stuff.
Steady on. The PCS is naff, and doesnât dry half as quick as DPM, and I wouldnât say PCS was designed by anyone thatâs even been outside let alone anyone with any experience in the forces.
Bloody awful stuff.