VR(T) Commission Change

Lots of hacked off Warrant Officers and SNCOs too.

I’m fairly sure that having different rules is fine, you’re only likely to run in to difficulty if the rules are seen as unequal.

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Well the “offending” individual.
If that individual wants to be involved then they should play by the rules of the game.

It always makes me chuckle when people suggest they’ll now grow a beard because they are not in the RAF.
Balls.

These people didn’t grow a beard because they wear a uniform with standards set upon it – not because of some tenuous link to the RAF.
It is for the same reason these people don’t wear earrings or replace their uniform trousers for jeans.

We join in with the game because we like the playing it.
We confirm to dress regs and met expectation because if we don’t they won’t let us play anymore.

We recognise authority and rank yet in all reality it means very little. What makes a Fg Off senior to a FS? Well we know it is because that is how the rank structure works, but we are all CFAVs and thus youth workers, strip away the theme of the organisation and there is little, if anything, that separates us from Scout leaders.
I don’t mean that in a negative sense – we do the same role. Volunteer our time to assist the local community, we offer life experience and skills to the youth within that community and do so for very little reward or recognition.
While one organisation has a flying/aviation/military theme (ACO) another might have a first aid, training/educating theme (St John’s Cadets) or have a Church support/ tekking/camping/watersports theme (Scouts)

it is just the team we choose to play for.
If you take the example of twins (Bill & Ben) who become CFAVs one becomes a SNCO (Bill) the other takes commission (Ben).
Due to his family situation Ben cannot attend Squadron regularly having a wife and a two young children. Ben on the other hand is single and fills his free time with Cadet activities.

Despite the difference in commitment levels and attendance Fg Off Ben remains senior, as such FS Bill calls him Sir and does as his brother asks….but why? – when else would anyone call their brother/sister Sir/Ma’am??
Because we play the game and accept our chosen position in the structure.

Those wanting to grow a beard are the ones wanting to rebel, they don’t want to conform; they either disagree or don’t recognise the rules of the game. And like anyone who doesn’t follow the rules of the game they are a nuisance for those who play along nicely.

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I know I’m new to this area, however, I’ve looked on Bader and I can see no change. Has something been officially changed or are the Bader up dates correct?

Regards
Confused!!

It is on the scrolling announcements here.
it doesn’t seem to have made its way onto the CFC pages.

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Interesting new date. I am at the OIC which finishes on 1 Dec. So (if all goes well) I will graduate into both commissions that date, only to have the VR(T) one relinquished a few hours later. At least I should get both scrolls.

I wonder if that date has been chosen specifically to make something of our OIC course’s graduation?

Can you get on OIC before December?

Most likely, PR and all that rubbish. Maybe it’ll be CAC that will give you the scrolls.

Though thinking about it, maybe they’ll make a huge fuss about it as the first batch of officers getting the CFC scroll.
I don’t think they’d give VR scrolls given that it would be changed 12 hrs after… Even if they [VR scrolls] would already be ordered/at ATF ready for issue, they’d probably be binned :rolleyes:

I would hope for a VVIP. You never know!

nah, Kate will be hitting the bathroom floor as she throws up for the 475th time that week.

the Vordermann perhaps…

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That is the thing we all should be paying by the rules. With the new CFC no volunteer really knows what their terms and conditions will be. Many here are not satisfied with the answers that HQAC have given regarding the new commission. It was stated originally that the CFC would be a military commission. It was only by asking questions on SharePoint that it came out that the CFC is not a military commission.

Now as officers we are not in the military. Many here have stated that having the ATC outside of MoD control would be a good thing.

Can HQAC impose illegal rules no. Can we chose to follow illegal rules yes.

The hair issue is a WHOLE CAN OF WORMES that will blow up in the faces of RAFAC, the cadets forces and maybe even the military. We allow different rules for boy and girls. It will only take one parent who is a lawyer and a member of staff to say you can’t do that until you get your hair cut or even worse throw somebody out of the sqn for long hear then the litigation may be long and costly.

APPEARANCE
Growth of Hair and Beards - Male Personnel. (QR209 & 210).

  1. Hair. The hair of the head is to be well cut and trimmed. Sideburns are to be short and well-trimmed and are not to extend below a line running through the midpoint of the ear. Extreme styles of haircuts and colouring are not permitted. If the hair is dyed or highlighted, the colour chosen is to be natural and in a uniform shade appropriate to the individual.

Hairdressing - Female Personnel.
0152. Female personnel are to arrange their hair in a manner that permits the Service Dress cap to be worn correctly; hair is not to show under the front or peak of the cap and the style is to be kept neat and no longer than the bottom edge of the collar at the back of the Service jacket. Extreme styles of haircuts and colouring are not permitted, if the hair is dyed or highlighted, the colour chosen is to be natural and in a uniform shade appropriate to the individual. Narrow fabric covered hair bands (scrunches) may be worn with working dress, but must be inconspicuous and either of a similar colour to the hair or black. Fabric hair bands are not to be worn on parade. Combs, when worn, must be plain and of a similar colour to the wearer’s hair. Exceptionally, when required on tasks or training which requires them to wear safety equipment, females with long hair may wear their hair in a ponytail if this facilitates safe fitting of such items. When the need to wear this equipment has passed, the hair must be put up. The OC Wg / Wg Ex O / CCF OC Test shall be the arbiter upon what is or is not an acceptable style or length of cut.

The above is taken directly from AP1358C.
I was under the impression under the equality act that having rules that were different for boys and girls were illegal.

Should individuals play the game? Generally yes, blindly obeying the rules no.

Lets just follow the CCF lead, and ignore that bit!

Yeah just means they don’t turn up in uniform.

We play along to the rules of the game, but I think for the many years we have had the proper commission if you like of the VR(T), it made sense and I can see where some people are coming from now that we will all be civilians, can we have our own rules to play by and not the hand me down ones from the RAF. I think as the old VR(T)s disappear and the RAF link becomes ever more vague you can see the real potential for a change in how the organisation operates. It happens all the time and it is accepted. Our company doesn’t operate the same as it did when I started, it has changed over the years to meet the needs as time as gone along, if it hadn’t it would have gone under.

We are at a massive point of change and rather than being seen as a defining moment and embracing it and using it as an evolutionary step for the ACO, it’s just business as usual for the old RAF types as it would see their empires crumble. This attitude won’t benefit the Corps one iota.

Bear in mind this could be an evolutionary point for all cadet forces and not just the Air Cadets.

It’s easily dealt with under the Code of Conduct certainly as far as the cadets are concerned. You chose to join the organisation, on day 1 you were given the rules, if you don’t want to play by the rules then over a long period of time with your parents and Wing involved you will eventually be thrown out of the organisation.

There is nothing to say you can’t have different uniform rules for males and females that was confirmed as recently as April when there was the big thing about companies requiring female staff to wear high heels.

So if you were an ATC Sqn OC and you had a male cadet who refused to have their hair cut, what would you do??
Are you saying you would let him grow his hair long or would you insist he obeyed the rules?

It is a very good question and one that demonstrates how this organisation’s blind inheritance of the RAF’s dress regulations is not particularly suitable for this organisation.

Such a person would find that they don’t get selected for activities, especially uniformed ones. I see a large range of leeway given to the phrase “short and neatly trimmed”.

One of the other issues here is the message to the young people in our charge.
A young person could read the ignoring of rules as ok? This has potential implications for them in the wider world. Certainly if they want a military career?
Is it ok for us to ignore or interpret the law? As adults we should understand that.
The effect we have on our cadets has broad implications.

When I was a cadet, we had a lad in our unit who had very long hair. His parents wouldn’t let him cut it, and so our OC agreed that he could wear it up, in the same way female cadets do.

I can’t remember anyone every having an issue with that, and it didn’t stop him attending camps, flying etc.

As an OC now, I would do exactly the same to any cadet who wanted long hair on my unit. If their School accept it, why can’t we?

The circumstances you describe are interesting, but what about a cadet refusing for no other reason?
Would you find it acceptable then if other male cadets came to you asking to grow their hair long because Cadet blogs has?

All the years that I have been a OIC and OC of a unit I have never had a cadet who has refused to comply with the dress regs. In the end though there is not much we can do apart from a hats on no coffee chat if as an enrolled cadets and they refuse point blank to get a hair cut.

Throwing this back to you 109115 what would you do in this situation?