VR(T) Commission Change


#687

Both. There’s a note on the CFC page on SharePoint


#688

There is a Letter from Commander Cadets on Defence Gateway confirming the same, with a cutoff date in July for confirming October date.


#689

Cheers. I couldn’t get into SharePoint for some reason (Error503) but I eventually did and saw the update.


#690

Extract from RC briefing

With a large degree of complexity still remaining, progress will be reviewed at the end of July to confirm that the 1 October 2017 date remains achievable. An update will be provided after the July review.

Doesn’t sound confident to me.


#691

Nor should it. An excess of confidence about an arbitrary deadline has lead us to where we are now.
A reasoned and sensible approach is now needed. It was needed back then too but it seems it wasn’t an option! :rolleyes:


#692

It’s a sensible approach (now) given all the previous hype. This was they stop messing up peoples expectations and change control plans. It also suggests this isn’t as clear cut as once thought. It’s ok a bunch of brigadiers sitting around low coffee tables saying some Wing Commander has “advised” them that it would be legislative and royally OK, but when people with proper legal backgrounds give it the once-over, well who knows how that conversation went.

No one is disagreeing with the statement that this is a complex and challenging change not looked at for 50/60 years. However this should have been the rhetoric from the start and certainly not rushed to fix a date which was unachievable. It suggests a large amount of panic on behalf of someone with serious clout. The MoD perhaps following the review of voluntary legal status’?


#693

The reason it hasn’t needed to be looked at for the best part of 70 years is because people didn’t expect anything and just did whatever they did and there wasn’t the demands on us as staff as there is now (day job benefits were sufficient) to make it a job rather than hobby. When you feel like you are doing two jobs, you would expect benefits of two jobs.

I have a sense that there are more changes in the pipeline and they probably need to make it so that these can be implemented without further alteration to the new commission rules etc, where all CF officers will come under the same broad umbrella causing some more problems whoever did this initially hadn’t taken into account.

I wonder though how many unfussed by changes to status or title, will lose patience with this constant back tracking and non delivery which frustrate efforts to do things and think I can find better things to do with my time and money. The broader concern is that these frustrations are felt by more than officers, which would be disasterous for the Corps.


#694

They will be looking at pay. this will include pay for responsibility, a bounty, paying CIs, do nothing, keep the status quo. the good news is that we will be fully consulted.


#695

Said with your tongue fully in your cheek I imagine?[quote=“the_silverback, post:694, topic:2647, full:true”]
the good news is that we will be fully consulted.
[/quote]


#696

You had me up until this bit.


#697

Oooh pay for CIs … there go the pigs.

I think if you’ve re-badged as a CI, you should get paid at your last rank rate as long as you were in that rank for a minimum of 10 years :wink:

I do admit the idea of even being partially consulted as being at best a fanciful notion.


#698

Ooo, I could retire as a Flt Lt now and get paid that for the rest of my life in the ATC. Would there be any point as me remaining in uniform as a sqn cdr? Ummm No there wouldn’t. There have to be some incentive for wanting to remain in uniform and put up with there Eartha Kitt.


#699

[quote=“the_silverback, post:698, topic:2647, full:true”]

[quote=“Farriersaxe, post:697, topic:2647”]
I think if you’ve re-badged as a CI, you should get paid at your last rank rate as long as you were in that rank for a minimum of 10 years :wink:
[/quote]Ooo, I could retire as a Flt Lt now and get paid that for the rest of my life in the ATC. Would there be any point as me remaining in uniform as a sqn cdr? Ummm No there wouldn’t. There have to be some incentive for wanting to remain in uniform and put up with there Eartha Kitt.[/quote]
Unfortunately I think you’re right there needs to be a benefit to wearing a uniform.
While financial gain isn’t the absolute reason for a uniform role, it sugar coats the pill of uniform. Even if CIs got remunerated at say £20 a day, much less than that and the admin/processing costs would be more making it daft idea, where is the incentive to wear a blue suit? If I got £20 a day, it would more than cover any expenses over and above what I might spend anyway.


#700

The ability to claim pay is the only thing that keeps me as an OC and in uniform. Once that goes I’ll become a CI again (or leave).


#701

When you actually reflect on the ‘pay’ thing as a whole for CF (not just ATC), when the MoD overall is being expected to cut spend/costs, where on earth would the money for ‘paying’ CIs, bounty, responsibility of whatever, come from?
The only way I can see this happening, would be to cut PTDs and the associated budgetary commitment 28 PTD per uniformed member of staff entails, which could then be ‘moved’ to other budgets.
We should remember where we sit in the grand scheme, ie in relation to those serving.

You wouldn’t be alone in that. Imagine the ATC fully staffed by non-uniformed people, the heads of those in the ivory towers would implode, as they’d have no hold over people. If there were a few who were in uniform their lives would be a misery.


#702

I think they forget I do not get paid as a Sqn Cdr. All of the work I do as a Sqn Cdr is done for FREE. The main benefit of a Sqn Cdr is I get paid at Flt Lt rate. It helps me take the Eartha that goes along with it.

The pay I get goes towards all of the stuff I need to buy that allows me to participate in the ACO. No 3 uniform, brown boots stamps for mail paper, toner for my printer and the time completing admin of a Sunday afternoon or Tuesday night because there isn’t enough time on a parade night to complete the admin there.


#703

Not just as Sqn Cdr.
When I was cadet and then CI, I spent hours (all pre widely used PC software) putting lessons together on acetates, hand typing / drawing handouts and even after this and using software all takes time, which can be looked at in financial terms.

In the modern era H&S, TO, Adj can spend hours doing things away from the sqn to placate the salaried staff’s requirement for bits of paper etc and not to mention all staff prepping lessons / activities. How many of our employer’s hours could be billed to HQAC? The odd 5 mins here and there dealing with ATC things soon builds up.

If you were to say that an average hourly rate for volunteer staff was say £12/hr, it could easily equate to c. £80/week (c. £4.1K pa) per member of staff for things away from the sqn. Of course this is very simplistic but putting a monetary value against it makes it more real. If you add in time at the sqn add another 5/6 hours a week, taking it to c. £150/wk.


#704

Bump.
Anybody got anything on the CFC? It has gone very quiet on the change over of commissions.


#705

Nothing heard. Last update was to say that progress will be reviewed at the end of July to determine if the 1 Oct date was still feasible.


#706

From the CFC page on SharePoint;

With a large degree of complexity still remaining, progress will be reviewed at the end of July to confirm that the 1 October 2017 date remains achievable. An update will be provided after the July review.

Anybody seen anything regarding this?