Worth a look, if you’ve ever wondered exactly how they worked. It’s a good video, but take it from me, it was a lot more fun in real life, than this ‘Sims’ version. And a lot more ‘underground Air Force’, too.
[video width=425 height=344 type=youtube]SbbFd2a_SXY[/video]
wilf_san
Hopefully a few more of the declared ex-Obs from the old ACC will have made it across to the new world. Any takers??
wilf_san
ps my old rank
pps some of our senior officers (mostly regulars, mid/late 1980s)
(note that ROC Officer rank-braid was RAF rank-braid re-dyed so that the wedgewood-blue centreline became coloured midnight blue, the same as the braid background and therefore composite braid was never worn)
A sandbag??? I’ll need to start off on the Auggie stories next, then!
:lol:
wilf_san
Our SSI is ex ROC. There is a picture of her hanging on the wall at RAF High Wycombe in her ROC days, quite removed now from the Army uniform she wears!
Incidentally the most interesting English Heritage building I have ever visited is the old bunker at York, which is as it was at stand down (in 1991?). As you say Wilf I got the impression that it is a very underground air force thing, and a spookly scary job to practice for (on a voluntary basis as well!), with the shadow over it all that when the food runs out, you take your chances outside. Just brings home what nuclear war would really have been like. :blink:
Very interesting video. I’ll have to go exploring at some point.
Now that is extremely interesting. That means I know exactly what she used to do, because I had a similar specialism up in Scotland. Give her a big hello from me, and tell her if she’s ever interested to speak with fellow former Observers, there is an excellent members-only Facebook page (and if she has any difficulty in joining it, she can email me via [hide]wilf_sanatraf.mod.uk.net[/hide] …replace the “at” with an @ ), or alternatively PM me.
Although they are rare creatures, you can actually get RAF SSIs. I was discussing this fact with TMM ages ago (I notice that he hasn’t appeared either, as yet, over here on the new ACC forum). They would still have exactly the same status as ATC WOs/FSs/Sgts ie appointed civilians in uniform.
The York Acomb Group HQ is good, isn’t it?
It was a strange but rewarding thing to do. I just wish that the world was a genuinely safer more-stable place for my kids and other Cadets to inherit than it is. We’ve had 20yrs now since the Cold War ended, and the world is just as bad, but in a bigger variety of ways.
And who knows: the ROC is still a stood-down RAF corps, it is not disbanded. It’s banner is hung in the Rotunda of RAF College Cranwell, alongside the colours of other squadrons and wings of the Air Force which are legally-subject to reactivation. During WW2, many older ATC Air Cadets were also serving with the ROC as part of the Home Front. It’ll never happen again, but… :unsure:
wilf_san
[quote=“wilf_san” post=936]
Now that is extremely interesting. That means I know exactly what she used to do, because I had a similar specialism up in Scotland. Give her a big hello from me, and tell her if she’s ever interested to speak with fellow former Observers, there is an excellent members-only Facebook page
Although they are rare creatures, you can actually get RAF SSIs. I was discussing this fact with TMM ages ago (I notice that he hasn’t appeared either, as yet, over here on the new ACC forum). They would still have exactly the same status as ATC WOs/FSs/Sgts ie appointed civilians in uniform. [/quote]
She doesn’t do facebook alas-I will pass it on next time i’m in though!
Don’t get me started on RAF SSIs! The CC is trying to appoint one at the moment, suffice to say Brigade and HQAC are colluding together to make life hardwork!
[quote=“wilf_san”]
And who knows: the ROC is still a stood-down RAF corps, it is not disbanded. It’s banner is hung in the Rotunda of RAF College Cranwell, alongside the colours of other squadrons and wings of the Air Force which are legally-subject to reactivation.[/quote]
I suspect it will never happen-it was a great mistake to stand it down in the first place. it is one of those things that would be so hard to start from scratch!
Intriguing…obviously if your SSI is commssioned (unusual, but not impossible), they’ll be RAFVR(T), but what about if they’re a Warrant Officer, Flight Sergeant or Sergeant??
Presumably they’ll then wear these??
If so, I’ve never seen such a thing. More likely, they’ll just not bother wearing collar titles.
wilf_san
Not wishing to derail this topic any further-but that Wilf suffice to say, amongst many issues, is what all the headbanging is over!
I did wonder if that would pose a problem.
Equally, as BTI, I and others have discussed here and elsewhere, there wouldn’t be anything in theory preventing a non-commissioned RAF SSI being a full member of the training branch of the RAFVR.
I often served alongside RAFVR Sergeants/Flt Sergeants and WOs of the General Duties branch up until 1997, there is no limitation on Other Ranks serving in the RAFVR…the vast majority of University Air Squadron members are that.
Unlike us Auggies, they wore VRs on their rank-slides in No2/3 dress. Also, they correctly wore cloth identifiers in No1 dress, and not the Offr-pattern gilt lapel badges now universally worn by ATC Adult FSs and Sgts
wilf_san
[quote=“wilf_san” post=1004]Also, they correctly wore cloth identifiers in No1 dress, and not the Offr-pattern gilt lapel badges now universally worn by ATC Adult FSs and Sgts
wilf_san[/quote]
Silly, geeky question:
On the collar or on the arm?
They wore their cloth VRs on the arm, at the shoulder, under the eagles, in exactly the same style as we did with our 'A’s on No1 dress for the RAuxAF, and which is still done now by all ranks FS and below in the current RAuxAF (although I have heard rumours that they may be getting removed from No1s and No5s, the same way they’re now absent from working dress).
The only other variation from this is for RAuxAF WOs, who now wear cloth 'A’s on the arm at the cuff in No1s, beside the Royal Arms badge. This appears to me to be a fairly-recent change (and in fact an inheritance of the style originally followed by RAFVR(GD) WOs prior to 1997. Certainly in my experience, prior to this all RAuxAF WOs (including MAcr) always wore brass 'A’s on the collar in the same style associated with commissioned officers in the reserve air forces of the Crown. That’s certainly why ATC AWOs started wearing brass 'ATC’s on the lapel, and the fact that all ATC Adult Flight Sgts and Sgts wear them as well is just a convenience, rather than the application of previous dress traditions in the Reserve Air Forces. But in that sense, LaSER Sgts have created a new tradition that is now firmly-embedded as a standard. Who knows, perhaps RAuxAF ORs dress regulations for No1 dress will become influenced by the lead now set by ATC AFSs and ASgts, and start wearing 'A’s on their lapels…something that for all other Air Force formations prior to ‘LaSER Sgts’ was an Offrs+WOs only dress item.
wilf_san
It is also the case that whilst it can be done-the Army (who control the CCF) and the RAF (who provie single-service support to the CCF(RAF) through HQAC), have to actually talk to each other, and make it happen, which is part of the issue.
When it comes to it, I expect AP1358c will just be changed to include CCF gilt badges for SSIs in due course.
[quote=“40b”]
When it comes to it, I expect AP1358c will just be changed to include CCF gilt badges for SSIs in due course.[/quote]
Well, it certainly acknowledges their existence…potential or otherwise
wilf_san
[quote=“wilf_san” post=1048]
The only other variation from this is for RAuxAF WOs, who now wear cloth 'A’s on the arm at the cuff in No1s, beside the Royal Arms badge.
wilf_san[/quote]
:? Not seen. :?
[quote=“tango_lima” post=1138][quote=“wilf_san” post=1048]
The only other variation from this is for RAuxAF WOs, who now wear cloth 'A’s on the arm at the cuff in No1s, beside the Royal Arms badge.
wilf_san[/quote]
:? Not seen. :?[/quote]
Good news! So you’re still actually seeing it worn properly like this, commissioned officer style…
…and not the way it’s now meant to be worn as per AP1358??
wilf_san
[quote=“wilf_san” post=1145][quote=“tango_lima” post=1138][quote=“wilf_san” post=1048]
The only other variation from this is for RAuxAF WOs, who now wear cloth 'A’s on the arm at the cuff in No1s, beside the Royal Arms badge.
wilf_san[/quote]
:? Not seen. :?[/quote]
Good news! So you’re still actually seeing it worn properly like this, commissioned officer style…
…and not the way it’s now meant to be worn as per AP1358??
wilf_san[/quote]
Bang on. Essentialy an officer’s uniform with Royal Arms on the cuff instead of braids(and in this case a Commando Dagger on the arm).
[quote=“tango_lima”]
Bang on. Essentialy an officer’s uniform with Royal Arms on the cuff instead of braids(and in this case a Commando Dagger on the arm).[/quote]
Interesting. I have seen recent photographs (and I can’t now remember exactly where) which show the RAuxAF WO ‘A’ being worn as per current AP1358 (ie in cloth, and below the Royal Arms, in the style associated with the VR), but the picture above was also taken recently: brass 'A’s were always the standard issue for Auggie WOs. The next time I see an RAuxAF WO (which is a lot less often than I used to) I shall ask them.
But for any RAF SSIs, I believe that wearing ‘brass’/gilt "CCF"s on the lapel is probably still the best way to go. And thanks to the precident set by ATC LaSER Sgts, and the expedient solution that was applied to their lapels, that fix could be used for SSIs WO(CCF-RAF) and FS(CCF-RAF) plus Sgt(CCF-RAF). Either that, or just make them VRT: but again, the approach should either be (or has become) brass letters on the lapel.
What about you as a Aux Gnr? Presumably you still wear cloth 'A’s under the eagle, which in turn is under the muddie? Any time I see regulars or FSs/Sgts(ATC) in No1s, I want to go along and stick a little ‘A’ under their eagle. It looks so wrong without it…and (as of course you and I both know) the Air Forces of the Crown have only had a period of 7 years in the last 94 years when there hasn’t been at least a few Airmen and Airwomen bimbling about in No1s with 'A’s under their shoulder-eagles. It’s just that the bigger (hmmm, not so big nowadays) RAF tends not to get it
wilf_san
[quote=“wilf_san” post=1156]
What about you as a Aux Gnr? Presumably you still wear cloth 'A’s under the eagle, which in turn is under the muddie? Any time I see regulars or FSs/Sgts(ATC) in No1s, I want to go along and stick a little ‘A’ under their eagle. It looks so wrong without it…and (as of course you and I both know) the Air Forces of the Crown have only had a period of 7 years in the last 94 years when there hasn’t been at least a few Airmen and Airwomen bimbling about in No1s with 'A’s under their shoulder-eagles. It’s just that the bigger (hmmm, not so big nowadays) RAF tends not to get it
wilf_san[/quote]
Yep, still the same. I know exactly what you mean about wanting to stick 'A’s on people.
Every so often the rumour goes around that they won’t be making ‘A’ badges anymore or they won’t be sewn on by tailors, but I can’t see it happening. The only people I know who are in favour seem to be the ones from squadrons which were previously VR (who would prefer we were all ‘Reservists’ rather than them having to be auggies).
I wouldn’t object if they wanted us to put them back on working dress, if I’m honest.
