I don’t hear the other cadet forces calling their members by their first names.
It varies from person to person. I stick to surnames with newcomers to establish that extra discipline, but I relax this in informal situations with senior cadets. On parade or formal situations it is of course surname or rank/surname. As far as I know, there is no rule written that says I must call cadets by their surname at all time.
The CCF in my experience do this the majority of the time.
I understand your point of view Teflon. However, as you say we are “pushing the military angle”. As I said previous after 26 years in the RAF, I can not remember the last time I called any of my subordinates by their rank and surname. SAC Smith can you… Cpl Bloggs just pop and … it does not happen, it is Bob or their nick name. It also depends on how respectful and mature your cadets are. The lot I work with know when to call me by my Christian name and when not too. As for social media, if you have any cadets as “friends” on social media you deserve everything coming to you. As for knowing every cadet by name, it is your responsibility to know ALL your cadets or you will fall into the trap of only knowing the good, the bad and the gobby. The grey cadet deserves the same amount of recognition as the high / low fliers.
Well that explains a lot about their discipline.
You see that is where the difference is. In my case, I have been there, done it full time for a living and not just played at it. Your comment reference discipline is quite interesting. I am here trying to guide these young people into how to be responsible citizens. Obviously you are trying to recreate a Corp of yestur-year bullies based on “Bad Lads Army”. In my 18 years of dealing with the ACO, I can say hand on heart that there are far more staff within the ATC trying to morph the cadets into there own little 1950’s Air Force. The old battle of the ATC “v” CCF is dying with the CEP. There are many CCF cadets now in the same financial background bracket as the majority of the ATC. It is up to all of us to mould todays youth into respectful individuals, no matter what branch of the ACO they come from.
I’ll bite. This comments interests me. You suggest we are playing at it. Playing at what? We aren’t here trying to be a mini air force. I don’t train my mini airmen to react to scramble sirens, or get trashed at the Bop and charged the following morning. You seem to be one of those who thinks the ATC is full of pretend officers, and SNCOs yet you seem to be here yourself. I’ve been in the ACO for longer than 18 years, and ive seen more regular members of the RAF be something they are not, than i have seen in the ACO (and remember the ACO is bigger than the RAF).
Idiot.
Those who have nothing constructive to say always revert to insults. You proved my point. Thank you.
Don’t think I have ever been “playing” at being an ACO instructor - I’m pretty sure I have just been an ACO instructor. Also, it is very rare I call a cadet by their first name - I am sure my cadet don’t think anything by it and I am sure my NCOs recognise the respect I give them by calling them by the Rank they have earned. I expect to be called Sir (or boss) and I return the compliment to cadets in a similar way.
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Hardly as you earlier message didn’t mention anything about what I responded to. I propose that your argument sir, has run out of steam.
Anyway, I have too many cadets to try and learn all their names. The younger ones are called by surname, the SNCOs are called by their first names in smaller circles/private/the office. Every cadet calls me sir or the CO. It’s just how it goes from the day one when they are taught standards by the WO. They choose not to alter it - a sign of respect. I’m not for stepping in and correcting them by saying, “call me Dave” but I don’t pick them up in silly things either. I’ve been to Sqns who have this mentality and there is a lack of discipline. They done participate in events as there’s a lack of teamwork and respect for the staff. When the wing glitterati visit no compliments are paid. If they are on station, problems are usually traced back to their cadets. Clearly this doesn’t solely stem from what you call each other, but it’s part of the discipline plan.
Next you will suggest we don’t do drill because the RAF hardly do it and anyone who does is a pretend SWO.
You clearly don’t remember being in training then…
He’s too good to remember being trained or even to bother with SSIC mate.
Plt_Off_Prune, Of cause we should do drill, it is there for getting a body of individuals from one place to another in an orderly manner which also teaches self discipline and team work. As for the Proving my point part, we were talking about respect and discipline, why you decided to lower yourself to call me an idiot I do not understand.
MattB & daws1159, I remember basic recruit training and trade training in 1985 after that further training in 1990. JNCO training in 1994 SNCO training in 2002, multi - skilling training in 2006, train the trainer training in 2009. With several trade related courses in between. So I have no issues with being trained or doing the training. As for the SSIC bit, I wonder if you retired from the RAF as an Officer (I’m assuming you are VR(T)) and was told to go back to Cranditz to do IOC again as the first time you were there, it was not the same as what the ACO do, would you be pleased?
I know an ex regular officer of LS commission who was eager to go back and “get a refresher”. Similarly the vast majority of ex Reg SNCOs want to go back and do the ATC courses. One lad didn’t. And he was quickly found out to be a major throbber. He isn’t around anymore and we don’t miss him sadly. Talked too much about “when he was in the RAF”, sadly it didn’t wash with other people - people who have just as important jobs in Civvie street.
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When I did my SSIC many moons ago we had 2 NCO’s on the course who had previously been SNCO’s one a Sgt and the other a WO both of whom were more than happy to learn as were 3 others who had been Airman & JNCO’s. Likewise on my OIC we had a former FS a former Fg Off who didn’t begrudge being there.
It strikes me that only a person with a closed mind would assume that a previous career would fully prepare them for something new, especially prior to doing the course. It makes me think of several ex-regulars I’ve had to deal with who seemed to be in the organisation through fear of letting go of a past life. (I firmly include my previous regional commandant in that group).
In the real world of work that I move in we are expected to be refreshed on a regualr basis, certain of my skills as often as 6 monthly as that’s the way life is and if you want to be in the club you should play by the rules. The fact that HQAC allowed you to skip SSIC staggers me as I know of at least one very senior WO who was turned away for refusing to complete it.
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I know that WO too. I’m not closed to further training. I started as a CI and was very happy with my lot. The Army got involved and of cause they have differing rules about what a Civilian Assistant can do. Weapon training is not one. That is one of the reasons I was brought onto the team, hence I had to go back into uniform. Please do not get me wrong I was very proud of my past career and I am not one who rams my triumphs and hiccups on people. The thing that you may not be aware of is the ACO do not pay me a penny, not even travel. My employer pays me. So for the ACO to then start dictating what I have to do for no remuneration, I feel is a bit off.
If you are an adult member of staff in the ACO, you are entitled to claim travel outside of parade journeys for a large list of activities on a 1771. I’m actually wondering know if you’re even a member of staff on a squadron.
I’m an Assistant SSI. So no I’m not staff on a squadron. I hold a “purple post” that caters for the CCF Contingent. Hence an Army / School appointed post. The ACO are involved as my past service was RAF and wear blue instead of green. So payment is from School not Army, as main SSI gets the 52 days pay. The ACO will not allow me to claim a penny. If I were commissioned I could claim as it would be ACO VR(T) rules. As the CCF (RAF) do not have adult SNCO’s and I’m badged at my last rank held in the regulars. There is no mechanism to process claims from an Asst SSI (RAF) SNCO.
The 52 PTDs for an SSI should be shared between you really.