I’m hoping a few of you can help me with something.
Tonight at the Sqn an interesting point was raised - in blues, do you wear the stable belt on top of your RAF belt, or do you choose one belt or the other to wear?
I was always told it was one or the other. Now I happened to mention that I was told that in front of another member of staff & was told the RAF belt has to be worn but the stable belt is optional ON TOP of the RAF belt.
I have Asperger’s Syndrome, a form of autism. I feel secure with written rules & regulations as I have something to follow, something that tells me what is acceptable & not acceptable. Unwritten rules, however, confuse & stress me out.
I know belt-gate (as I’m calling it) is not mentioned in 1358C, and having been told different things I don’t know who is right and who is wrong. Therefore, I need some help in identifying any other unwritten rules in regards to dress regs in the ATC. Obviously there is the pink tutu rule as well, but are there any others?
Please, no sarcastic answers. As I say, I don’t have a clue what to believe any more, and don’t know who I can trust to give me a correct answer, so I will go with the majority on here. I am a new adult NCO and therefore want to make sure I have all the correct information should it ever become an issue. After all, I was told by my wing staff I was not good enough to attend ATF (which I did eventually & passed with flying colours), so excuse me if I feel I cannot approach anybody in my wing for the correct answer.
There are, helpfully, three correct answers to your question.
With the old style belt, you can wear both at the same time - firstly because the buckles don’t clash, and secondly because wearing the stable belt over where the grey belt goes means you can’t see whether someone is wearing both or not, and so no rule - the interpretation of which I think is incorrect anyway - is broken.
With the new style stable belt you can’t wear both as the buckles are in the same place, meaning that firstly you’ll be able to see the grey belt underneath the stable belt, and secondly they will make a horrible metal grinding noise as you walk about…
If your trousers fall down you are wearing the wrong belt - all dress regulations are over-ruled by the absolute requirement that you do not expose yourself to a bunch of children.
I don’t know why I didn’t just check 1358C in the first place, because it is in there.
Are there any other hotly discussed ‘unwritten’ rules for dress? Ie one that was discussed this morning was MTP - can those who have bought CS95 wear it, or does it HAVE to be PCS? As that isn’t mentioned. 1358C gives reference to CS95 (with no DPM in front of it) & PCS-MTP, but doesn’t say anything about MTP CS95.
the big unwritten rule with DPM/MTP is that it must be ‘appropriate’ above all things - that means that if a cadet needs (because they don’t have a finanicial alternative, or the alternative is filthy, or soaking, or not up to protecting the cadet in the weather/environmental conditions they are in…) to wear that which is outside the rules, then they wear that which is outside the rules, and the rules be buggered.
the rule that goes alongside that is that as the ACO does not, and cannot, provide DPM/MTP for every cadet, the ACO accepts that for financial or supply reasons that cadets DPM/MTP kit may well fall outside the ideal put forward in the regulations - moreover the ACO accepts, as its parent service does, that when in the field, the exact adherance to regulations is unneccesary and sometimes inappropriate, and that cadets (and their parents) can choose what is most appropriate for them.
so, for three examples:
Cadet A, who is 15, is a keen hillwalker, and his family buy him very good walking boots (lets say for example Meindl Burma boots, which retail at around £150…). these boot are brown, and Cadet A is not yet in MTP but still in DPM because his Sqn has vast quantities of DPM in its stores. the rules say that Cadet A should wear Black boots while in DPM, but his Sqn are doing a feildcraft camp at Sennybridge or Otterburn in rough terrain - only an idiot would prefer Cadet A to spend a week walking through mid-Wales or Northumberland in cheap hi-tec boots that are no more than trainers when he has a pair of high quality walking boots, so the ‘black boots in DPM’ rule is quietly dispensed with…
Cadet B is on a weekend Feild camp at Garelochead training area in November. its cold, wet and miserable. Cadet B has a softie jacket, but softie jackets for some reason weren’t included in the ACO’s copying of the RAF’s rule book, so the Pink Tutu rule applies - its not in the book, so you can’t wear it - however, the ACO believes that Cadet B being warm and cosy is far more important than the incompetance of whatever moron couldn’t even manage cut 'n paste correctly, so lets her wear the softie jacket.
123 (Anytown) Sqn managed to aquire a large quantity of CS95 in MTP. its servicable, its in the correct sizes, and it gives the cadets something to wear in the field. the OC knows that for some bizaare reason CS95 MTP clothing falls outside the ACO’s rules, but he decides that he would rather his cadets were slightly outside the rules if that means they have an extra £50 to spend on decent walking boots instead of having to fund MTP/DPM’s as well as boots.
managing these situations is about making decisions in the best interests of your cadets and understanding that rules that were devised by an organisation that supplies its people with everything they need are perhaps not always appropriate when transfered to an organisation that provides its people with very little.
^^^^^^^ Thus explaining, the old adage : rules are for the obedience of fools and guidance of wise men.
The instance of the blokes on the SAS selection who died, because whoever was in charge stuck to the rules, is a prime example.
Situations require appraising at the time, however the ATC has become littered, IMO with blinkered people (mostly in the SNCO cadre) who live and die by rules or ways they think are best.
The fact people lift things that apply to the armed forces (people who largely get supplied with things) and apply them directly to us, which is on a level of stupidity that cannot be defended.
Teflon, for people like me, rules are our safety net. We like them because we are often in situations where everybody automatically knows what to do - apart from us. With written rules we don’t have to rely on an automatic process that isn’t there to know what is the right thing to do.
However, I can apply common sense when required. If one of my cadets turned up with MTP shirt & trousers & a DPM smock for a weekend’s fieldcraft, I wouldn’t ban them from wearing the smock just because it goes against dress regs.
What I’m specifically after is anything mentioned to cadets when teaching dress regs (be they baby cadets or cadre cadets) that isn’t written down in 1358C. I’m not concerned with inclement weather or out in the field. Just your average squadron parade night & formal parades.
[quote]Cadet B has a softie jacket, but softie jackets for some reason
weren’t included in the ACO’s copying of the RAF’s rule book, so the Pink Tutu rule applies - its not in the book, so you can’t wear it[/quote]
The softie should be worn underneath the smock so it doesn’t need to be mentioned in regulations. If anyone told a cadet they couldn’t wear a perfectly good bit of warm kit in cold weather because it “isn’t it the book” should not be instructing cadets.
I’m with Leeroy here: the standard belt performs the function of keeping my trousers in place while the stable belt is purely cosmetic. Lets not open the can of worms that is getting the tailor to add fat belt loops to your trousers!
The buckles of the 2 belts do not clash: the stable belt (new style) has material behind the buckle. You can also slide the normal belt round to the buckle isn’t central if you still have problems. This also gives the option of removing the stable belt if circumstances change (or if someone is being an ass) and still having the proper belt on. Unless you habitually carry a blue/grey belt just in case!
What happened to the DPC intention for the revised pattern stable-belt to become an initial issue item for all ranks? And (presumably) the consequent size-change to the belt loops on the current NC No.2 dress? trousers?
i’ve worn mine many times on top while my smock dries off on a tree or one the back of a chair, you can lob it over a gore-tex in the style of a Belay jacket as worn in the climbing community, i - and everyone else in my Sqn - will lob it over whatever they are wearing if they stop for more than a few minutes in the cold…
neither you nor i think this stuff needs mentioning in the regs because its so obvious and elementary that its like mentioning that people need to breathe while doing footdrill, but apparently some people - not the OP - in this organisation actually need this most basic stuff spelt out to them in words of two sylables or less, ideally in big crayon letters.
Wholeheartedly agree. Some of those blinkered people have obviously never heard of dynamic risk assessment despite the fact that as human beings, we do DRA’s thousands of times a day without actually realising it.
I do realise that as a CI there is a lot I will never understand, but would anyone want to wear a belt that doesn’t hold trousers up or perform any other useful function if the wearing of it is optional?
