[Unpopular Opinion] Boot/Shoe Shine doesn't matter

Everyone Uniform and Drill
14

@anon77441282 - over here in the UK, perhaps we have an easier time that you all do (in the Royal Canadian Air Cadets) when it comes to polishing footwear.

In particular, I suspect that RCAirC Cadets maybe have to wear boots all the time, rather than leather shoes (please can you confirm: is this also the case for you?)

Modern boots are a lot more comfortable to wear (compared to traditional hard leather ones) but they are a nightmare to polish-up to a ‘mirror finish’ because they’re just too soft & flexible.

In RAF Air Cadets, we officially wear two types of dress shoes: Oxfords (for males, & optionally females) which tend to be made from hard, smooth leather. Usefully, the toecap is a seperate raised frontpiece, so is much easier to polish to a high standard.

Gibsons (for females) have no toecaps, and are made from a softer leather, so are more difficult to polish up to so-called ‘parade bull’ inspection standard…but still nowhere near as difficult to do, as boots.

In fact, our modern boots (normally just worn with combats or flying gear) are not meant to really be finished to a high shine, but just to a reasonable standard of appearance with a silicon polish.

The only British group that I can think of who might polish their boots in a traditional style anymore, like yourselves, would be our Sea Cadets (both the SCC and CCF(RN) strands)

This is WO1 Haffey-Leal, of 81(Juno Beach) Sqn RCAirC, demonstrating her boot-polishing technique- no real surprises, though I’ve never seen a suggestion that laces on any boots could/should be tied in a reef-knot. That is just weird…is that really recommended for Canadian Air Cadets?

15

Bang on precisely. Just as important.

HOWEVER and this is the crux of the matter.

Using and iron to apply creases to a shirt or trousers (or to simply get them out of a brazzard or keep flaps flat on a jumper) to pinch a line from Shania Twain “that don’t impress me much” as the end result of spending 5 minutes ironing a shirt or spending an hour and 5 minutes is exactly the same. Creases do not get any sharper, jumpers and brazzard do not get any flatter. Within reason anyone can iron. The biggest difference when ironing is where the creases are placed (which is noticeable as a negative) rather than how sharp they are.
I am certain we’ve all heard criticism about the position of a crease more so a compliment on how sharp creases are.

But with shoes, whatever the method there is a noticeable and often signifanct difference between 5 minutes work and 25 minutes, and in some cases further improvement after an hour and 5 minutes…why?
Because the shine of a shoe is not so easy finite as a ironed shirt or pressed trousers.

I completely agree thst both are equally important and I have shown this in my uniform scores. Great shoes but average everything else are scored down as all the time has been spent on shoes forgetting the basics of using and iron which as indicated above can only take 5 minutes per garment…

Because shoe polishing is not finite and there is also someone out there with shinier shoes thst is where the effort is placed.
It is also easier to put that effort in.
The distraction of Netflix (Or when on camp friends in a huddle) offers the chore some entertainment.
The specialist shoe polishing kit can be carried in a pocket while kit for the rest of uniform is neither as portable or as social an activity all combines to where effort makes a difference and indeed can become entertaining.

16

Not a single one of my 60+ cadets use the same shoes for school and cadets

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17

there are only two people who have exclusively bought parade shoes, but boots people are more willing to buy.

18

Never has been my experience you must have some well-off parents. But when there are 2 or 3 kids all wanting shoes and kids shoes ain’t cheap and they have a habit of growing and or ‘kicking them out’.

Don’t mention buying a box of tat shoes. A squadron close to us does this and it seems too much of a lottery in terms of condition and sizes to waste money on. Plus it makes a noose for your own neck if you start supplying them. Our local jumble shop (surplus) is IMO a shark, only ever has brand new shoes at a nonsensical price, despite advertising all manner of sizes for second hand shoes.

19

Nope our civilian committee is really good at helping those in need, you know like they should be. We also beg and borrow to secure some.

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20

But it’s not a requirement to have specific shoes, all they need are shoes and if they have some, that’s good enough.

21

I’m not saying we get them issue shoes. But if they need £20 to buy a set of “oxford style” shoes and spending out of bank of mum and dad will have a detrimental effect to their finances. We will either secure them a set of shoes or refund the receipt.

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22

And that’s why your cadets wear school shoes. I wouldn’t dream of allowing cadets to wear non standard shoes that didn’t look like DMS. Cadets off the squadron would take the mick.

We make sure every cadet has a pair of parade shoes separate to school shoes. I have civ comm permission to keep a stock of average sizes and will always pop into an army and navy store when passing to see if I can pick up a couple of decent pairs cheap.

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23

Well I suppose that’s the choice you make. If I heard cadets doing as you suggest they would receive some direct advice and their OC advised.

24

The dress regs say DMS shoes.

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25

And the code of conduct states that all cadets must follow Air Cadet Regulations which AP1358C does and it’s the OCs job to ensure the cadets follow it…

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26

I’m in an extremely deprived area. Lots of kids from inner city estates, lots of single parent families, lots of people who scrape together money for subs from leftover cash every month and can’t direct debit.

Every single kid has ‘proper’ shoes.

It’s not difficult. You just need to actually be proactive about it rather than putting in blockers at every step because you can’t be bothered.

By the way, you can pick up cadet sizes of parade shoes for <£10 on eBay very easily, quality is almost always perfectly fine.

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27

Spot on

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28

Not blocking anything.

In my lengthy time in I’ve never known anyone insist on cadets wearing particular shoes, as they aren’t issued. I don’t stop parents buying them but I don’t insist and if they ask I direct them away from the second hand shoes and more expensive new ones.

Staff get issued cadets don’t. Like so many things if it’s not issued you cannot insist. I haven’t throughout my time from being an AWO.

29

I’ll echo @GrandMaster_Flush, he is spot on.

My unit is also classed as in a deprived area. Us as staff are quite lucky and have had what I would call a priviledged upbringing, but 90% of our cadets and their parents have not.

We make sure that we have those difficult conversations and we have parents speak to us openly. After all we are offer great opportunities for their kids to do things they cannot afford to give them, so we find they are receptive and work with us.

Civ Coms are supposed to help with these things, whether it be camps or equipment, our kids do not do without.

I won’t lose sleep over a cadet wearing school shoes for a couple of parade nights, but if no DMS appear then I will have that conversation with mum/dad/guardian and find out why. It happened recently and we ensured our cadet did not go on camp with incorrect shoes, which would likely cause said cadet emotional problems.

We make it clear to our cadets when we advertise an activity with a cost then they can come to us in confidence and we will help.

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30

Exactly it’s not called civilian welfare committee for nothing. I’m fairly sure theres loads of Sqns out there just trying to fill up their bank balances as much as poss with out using it when needed

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31

Has anyone ever suggested to you that “your lengthy time” doesn’t automatically make you “right”?
Because if they haven’t then I have got a first for you…

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32

Did I say it makes me right?
I have “been under” many different regimes, nationally and locally and it that time I have not known anyone say or try and enforce cadets must have a specific type of footwear and the hounds will be unleashed if they don’t. The only specific point is black.
If “they” want to insist on colour and style fine, but be sure to ensure they are supplied at no cost to cadet or squadron and this is easy to accommodate teenage growth.
One of the selling points is that we supply at no cost specific items of uniform clothing, but this has never extended to shoes/boots or socks/tights.
Why is that cammo kit is so diverse?

33

I’m not entirely sure which world you’ve been living in because virtually every other youth group, after-school activity, sports club, &c requires some sort of purchase and in many cases this includes uniform items which parents have to provide.

In fact the vast majority of parents I have spoken to are very pleasantly surprised that we provide free uniform - Just as they had already expected there to be a long waiting list to join they had expected - and been ready to purchase - a whole uniform, because that’s what they’ve been used to with little Johnny/Jane’s other youth activities.

Certainly where savings can be made and passed on to families (such as Sqns who buy in bulk and sell on, or issue on temporary loan) then this is great. Many parents donate their youngster’s shoes when they outgrow them which allows us to issue them on to other cadets.

To throw a tantrum because a cadet doesn’t have the “right” style of shoe would be silly… But to be frank I don’t actually know ANYONE who takes the kind of draconian approach to shoes that you seem to suggest exists.
To require a preferred/accepted style of footwear is not just acceptable, it is generally expected to be the case by the parents themselves. There will always be those who struggle with money and that absolutely shouldn’t be a block to their child’s participation and nor should it result in any form of reprimand for the cadet. This is one of the areas where a Civilian WELFARE committee can get involved to support.

But I find that when most parents already have in mind to buy the whole lot and discover that much of it is provided for free they’re not adverse to spending £10-20 on a pair of parade shoes.

I grant you that experiences will vary around the country but I think that your suggestion that “the vast majority” of cadets don’t have dedicated cadet shoes is nonsense.

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