I’m not saying we get them issue shoes. But if they need £20 to buy a set of “oxford style” shoes and spending out of bank of mum and dad will have a detrimental effect to their finances. We will either secure them a set of shoes or refund the receipt.
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And that’s why your cadets wear school shoes. I wouldn’t dream of allowing cadets to wear non standard shoes that didn’t look like DMS. Cadets off the squadron would take the mick.
We make sure every cadet has a pair of parade shoes separate to school shoes. I have civ comm permission to keep a stock of average sizes and will always pop into an army and navy store when passing to see if I can pick up a couple of decent pairs cheap.
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Well I suppose that’s the choice you make. If I heard cadets doing as you suggest they would receive some direct advice and their OC advised.
The dress regs say DMS shoes.
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And the code of conduct states that all cadets must follow Air Cadet Regulations which AP1358C does and it’s the OCs job to ensure the cadets follow it…
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I’m in an extremely deprived area. Lots of kids from inner city estates, lots of single parent families, lots of people who scrape together money for subs from leftover cash every month and can’t direct debit.
Every single kid has ‘proper’ shoes.
It’s not difficult. You just need to actually be proactive about it rather than putting in blockers at every step because you can’t be bothered.
By the way, you can pick up cadet sizes of parade shoes for <£10 on eBay very easily, quality is almost always perfectly fine.
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Spot on
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Not blocking anything.
In my lengthy time in I’ve never known anyone insist on cadets wearing particular shoes, as they aren’t issued. I don’t stop parents buying them but I don’t insist and if they ask I direct them away from the second hand shoes and more expensive new ones.
Staff get issued cadets don’t. Like so many things if it’s not issued you cannot insist. I haven’t throughout my time from being an AWO.
I’ll echo @GrandMaster_Flush, he is spot on.
My unit is also classed as in a deprived area. Us as staff are quite lucky and have had what I would call a priviledged upbringing, but 90% of our cadets and their parents have not.
We make sure that we have those difficult conversations and we have parents speak to us openly. After all we are offer great opportunities for their kids to do things they cannot afford to give them, so we find they are receptive and work with us.
Civ Coms are supposed to help with these things, whether it be camps or equipment, our kids do not do without.
I won’t lose sleep over a cadet wearing school shoes for a couple of parade nights, but if no DMS appear then I will have that conversation with mum/dad/guardian and find out why. It happened recently and we ensured our cadet did not go on camp with incorrect shoes, which would likely cause said cadet emotional problems.
We make it clear to our cadets when we advertise an activity with a cost then they can come to us in confidence and we will help.
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Exactly it’s not called civilian welfare committee for nothing. I’m fairly sure theres loads of Sqns out there just trying to fill up their bank balances as much as poss with out using it when needed
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Has anyone ever suggested to you that “your lengthy time” doesn’t automatically make you “right”?
Because if they haven’t then I have got a first for you…
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Did I say it makes me right?
I have “been under” many different regimes, nationally and locally and it that time I have not known anyone say or try and enforce cadets must have a specific type of footwear and the hounds will be unleashed if they don’t. The only specific point is black.
If “they” want to insist on colour and style fine, but be sure to ensure they are supplied at no cost to cadet or squadron and this is easy to accommodate teenage growth.
One of the selling points is that we supply at no cost specific items of uniform clothing, but this has never extended to shoes/boots or socks/tights.
Why is that cammo kit is so diverse?
I’m not entirely sure which world you’ve been living in because virtually every other youth group, after-school activity, sports club, &c requires some sort of purchase and in many cases this includes uniform items which parents have to provide.
In fact the vast majority of parents I have spoken to are very pleasantly surprised that we provide free uniform - Just as they had already expected there to be a long waiting list to join they had expected - and been ready to purchase - a whole uniform, because that’s what they’ve been used to with little Johnny/Jane’s other youth activities.
Certainly where savings can be made and passed on to families (such as Sqns who buy in bulk and sell on, or issue on temporary loan) then this is great. Many parents donate their youngster’s shoes when they outgrow them which allows us to issue them on to other cadets.
To throw a tantrum because a cadet doesn’t have the “right” style of shoe would be silly… But to be frank I don’t actually know ANYONE who takes the kind of draconian approach to shoes that you seem to suggest exists.
To require a preferred/accepted style of footwear is not just acceptable, it is generally expected to be the case by the parents themselves. There will always be those who struggle with money and that absolutely shouldn’t be a block to their child’s participation and nor should it result in any form of reprimand for the cadet. This is one of the areas where a Civilian WELFARE committee can get involved to support.
But I find that when most parents already have in mind to buy the whole lot and discover that much of it is provided for free they’re not adverse to spending £10-20 on a pair of parade shoes.
I grant you that experiences will vary around the country but I think that your suggestion that “the vast majority” of cadets don’t have dedicated cadet shoes is nonsense.
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You should try actually reading the dress regs.
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As long as the shoes look close enough to being DMS and are black in colour and polished I’m happy, and will happily allow a Cadet a few nights without if they are in the progress of sourcing some. Nearly all the time I was a Cadet I had a pair of DMS like shoes that came from Asda for £12 as I recall, never a problem.
If I had a Cadet who I knew their family struggled to fund shoes I would run with this and help where we could, but I’m not going to put any barriers in the way of that Cadet because of this.
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@MattB I’ve read them and TBH to make it easier for whoever it’s a re-title to “cadet” from RAF I’d assume.
It’s easy to say DMS and implying what that implies to people ie military DMS shoes without actually doing the intelligent thinking regarding supply etc, and the more pragmatic, black shoes with as extension preferably laced. But that is too much to ask I feel.