I stand by that… Because this was a question around that fact they’re not permitted rather than “what might happen in the field”.
They’re not permitted so you couldn’t legitimately wear one routinely.
I get that that you’re clarifying the logic of the rule, but you also asked “why would anyone want heavy sleeves [in addition to a wicking main body]”.
I gave a scenario in answer to that - a scenario that I believe should be considered a legitimate exemption to the rule. Something like:
“UBACS are not permitted for wear except in circumstances where the accepted practice is to adopt relaxed standards (removal of LW jacket in favour of Base Layer only in hot weather), but other H&S protocols require sleeves (I.e. FT with or without blank ammunition).”
Hmm. I’m still not convinced.
For fieldcraft in particular I’d want at least a LW jacket on.
If I was doing any kind of field craft or shooting, while carrying either belt-kit, a daysack or Bergen, I’d wear a UBACS shirt rather than a L/W jacket.
I’m struggling to think of any field based activity in which I’d choose a LWJ over a UBACS - I might choose other things like a t-shirt, or long sleeve baselayer, over the UBACS, but not a LWJ…
It would have to be below about 5c for it to be too chilly for just a UBACS shirt.
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Whatever gave you that idea? They are supposed to be an outer layer of clothing, not worn under a smock.
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My go to is Base Layer under smock, maybe Base and warm layer. Smock comes off I’m not putting a “shirt” on for the sake of it.
Only if I’m running the show, it’s warm-ish, and I’m expecting a visitor will I be in a LWJ (in the field).
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Dead simple.
Because they are not authorised for wear… Therefore if people are going to wear them they shouldn’t be seen… For our purposes that means that they could only be worn under the LW Jacket or smock… Which brings me back to where I started - That would be stupid.
Umm… No. They’re supposed to be worn under body armour. The clue is in the name. The only part which is outerwear are the sleeves, which is why they are camouflage.
The current issue UBACS is completely MTP including the torso. The UBACs IS an outer layer of clothing - nothing is supposed to be worn on top of it, otherwise there would be no point in it existing. It was designed to be the correct garment to be worn underneath armour but there is nothing anywhere that says you can’t wear it if you aren’t wearing armour. Regulars and reserves do it all the time.
ACF dress regulations say nothing about UBACS but we let cadets wear them in the field if they wish. No one cares.
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I do not think body armour was clothing it the same way a bergan or assault vest isn’t clothing.
Ah, now you see there was.
It was specifically mentioned - for the military as well as cadet forces - that it should not be worn routinely unless wearing armour.
I recall it well, though I couldn’t tell you when that was. The regulars were all starting to cut about in it instead of LW jackets and presumably some RSM got a grump.
In barracks that is fair enough, but in the field or transiting to/from the field they are fair game.
Yeah, fair… I certainly agree that what actually happens in the field and what is written in the book has long been two separate cases.
It’s for dyin’ in not ironin’!
Which is fine until you then get silly emails about Social Media posts from some pace-stick operator with nothing better to do!
Horses for courses…
We can’t really fault those particular operators given that it’s supposedly their role to enforce.
I’m always of the opinion that what happens in the field is of no great concern to me… But why make trouble by publically highlighting breaches of regulations.
Invariably it just means a grumpy email from someone above.
I had one last week like that.
There was a pic of a cadet wearing MTP webbing, DPM Bergen and Desert bush hat. It was taken during a lesson of them learning how to wear it.
There were two complaints, one was that the kit wasn’t being worn properly, (It wasn’t, as it was mid lesson.) Which I agree with, and would have taken the picture down on that front.
However, the other complaint was that the cadet was wearing mixed camo?? When has that been an issue with regard to rucksacks? (The desert hat was plonked on because it was all we have, and I wanted to obscure the face for the public social media post.)
Never.
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Sounds like somebody needs to get a life.
At the end of the day, if they’re worried about it that much then maybe they should reach into their own pocket and buy all your Squadron either MTP or DPM bush hats, because after all, that is one of the most fundamental issues facing the corps at the moment.
Cadets is about having fun. Just because some cadets can’t afford to get the right kit and pick something up off eBay for a quid which isn’t the right material shouldn’t stop them from having fun.
Some people and roles in this organisation really makes my blood boil…
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