UAS/RPAS (‘Drones’) on squadron

the toy not toy debate reminds me very much of the RAFAC approach to using air rifles.

for the most part, while not a toy, Cadets themselves can own an AR, store it under their bed and use it perfectly legally in their garden.

bring that application to the RAFAC and it needs a range, which is approved. it needs qualified staff and it needs admin (RA, paperwork processes etc)

a toy drone (sub 1kg) is a toy drone, suitable to whizz around a drill hall or similar, potentially around a car park/drill square without any paperwork.
I won a min drone smaller than a smart phone in a raffle. it was rubbish, as you might expect but was also suitable to use indoors and with some practice likely wouldn’t be “rubbish” - and I am sure if the right kit was purchased (ie similiar size but with appropriate money spent) it would be ideal.

but bring “drones” to the RAFAC environment and much like AR is treated as a “weapon” and so certain processes need to be conducted, a “drone” is seen as an “aircraft” (regardless of size or capability) and so a similar process is required.

I am all for a proper process, but as @juliet_mike indicates:

and much like any AT that isn’t “trekking” it becomes too complex for the “average” squadron to deliver

(by this I mean the vast majority of Squadrons have Trekking ability, but very few have climbing, mountain biking or paddlesports ability - and other than maybe 1-2 Squadrons in the wing who have both Staff and kit to support this, the only way Cadets get the opportunity is via Wing delivery which rarely sees more than 2 events a year with ~20 Cadets each session.

by the sounds of it, drone flying is going/is the same route. except there is no “trekking” (eg toy drone) option, it is only the top level option available - rightly or wrongly. I can see the arguments for both sides, but it does feel like a “health and safety gone mad” #dailymail approach, a sledgehammer to crack a nut approach. )

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Out of those in the know does the Air League Drone Scholarships meet with RAFAC requirements? https://airleague.co.uk/drone-scholarships

Exactly this - I want to use my photo drone to take camp photo, publicty, maybe to spot a wayward team on a DofE or a road marching event. And I want to use honest to god cheap toy drones for cadets to race and “play” with. That’s it. Anything over 250g is too much for what most of us want, yet we are going to have all the red-tape to fly a toy in the same way as a 25kg drone - soooo we won’t do anything with it because it’s too much work for little reward.

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DM me please.

Again not quite correct.

Even under 250g you need an operator ID if you have a camera but not a FLYER ID.

We aren’t going to be flying small drones like this. We have AIR 3 and AIR 3 S models as well as a few much larger drones including some used by the RAF Regt/Police.

We want this to be a framework to build towards bigger qualifications and not just for mucking around. We are trying to instil airmanship and other skills that will transferable to other applications within our organisation and outside.

Lots to reveal yet.

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We are providing the drones. We want to make this accessible to all and each region will have a large pool of drones provided and insured by us. And dozens of people to supervise the flying by the end of this year.

I understand your frustration but it cannot just become a free for all. We are a CAA registered operator and anything we do is subject to audit. The Sqn level will have something new as part of this project. Something every squadron can access and use as they build motor skills for outdoor flying.

More in the town hall and comms we have planned for the next month or so.

Just seen your second post so will reply here too.

In your scenario your small camera drone will by law still need an operator ID and be registered. As it’s on a RAFAC activity, it’d need a risk assessment and you’ll require insurance for your drone and public liability. An absolute ball ache IMHO as you personally burden the risk and costs.

In the model we propose you get a much more capable drone. A qualification to allow you to fly in the specific category and we insure and assure it. As well a providing pre-defined risk assessments. So the risk and cost are organisational.

But in reality this isn’t about taking a quick pic or mucking about with a toy… it’s so much more than that and something that has the ability to be so much fun; which is what we all want, right ?

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@Hercules, just out of interest has Air Commamd PSyA approved the use of AIR 3s ie any DJI product on any DTE locations ?

Esp with the PRC connections re firmware / software etc?

As the UAS used by the RAFP and Reg are approved for use but they are not DJI products for those given reasons

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Interestingly, although we can’t use DJI because with their 1 camera they “may” send info back to China, we can use Chinese built MT cars with multiple cameras and the ability to be tracked going anywhere - secret military base - nope, that’s just that wood block where all these cars end up…

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Re cars is perfect timing as the authority has issued a note on this topic last week … but is for certain sites … if you have access to MoDNet you will find that relevant information.

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As @Mozza663 said, forget taking your China-connected vehicle anywhere near one of these. Thinking of using Apple CarPlay or Android Auto to navigate your Chinese MT car? You guessed it … and don’t even think about talking shop.

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Forget the China link, any vehicle produced after circa 2019 has the ability of sending telemetry details back to its manufacturer; MT have been doing it for years with the ‘spy in the cab’ black box.

True, but might I suggest that’s less of a concern when the manufacturer is a private company in the free world rather than an organisation embroiled with the state and therefore intelligence services of a hostile power: where there is no concept of privacy or private ownership.

Esp these manufacturers are predominantly owned by entities in the People’s Republic of China (PRC) and are subject to the PRC National Intelligence Law (2017). Article 7 of this law mandates citizens and organizations to assist with intelligence activities, raising concerns about espionage risks.

Hi all,

Rather than me reply to all the posts about drone manufacturers and security, you may wish to read the 2 FTS Operating Manual for RPAS which is available on BADER for full information.

What I will say is that not all posts on here have the correct information regarding certain manufacturers and I can assure everyone that the 2 FTS team have been working very closely with the RAFP and MoD PSyA to ensure that any device we use is appropriate for the location it is used on.

Let’s leave that there.

From memory, the OM doesn’t give a definitive list, but refers to a list of drones approved for use on DE, but that list isn’t in the OM? And obviously Type A craft, DJI included, can not be used on any DE unless it’s RAFAC volunteer estate?