What is the point of having officers if they aren’t going to take charge? 
I would hope that the OC’s role would be as strongly supported as necessary by the other staff, allowing the new OC to ease into the job, taking on more of the workload as things settled.
What’s the point of having inexperienced officers doing something that could be done by someone with the experience?
The FS on the squadron I run, has been adj and TO and dabbled in a lot different things and would be better at running than some bloke or woman with nowhere near the same experience who has managed to get through a couple of courses. I’ve done the courses (inc AWO) and they do not prepare you for command on their own. You need experience and more than a couple of years.
I hear FS and WO moaning about Officers put into the chair at their squadron, I make the suggestion they could do it and you get the same sad lines of I’m not an officer. But they like to just moan rather than stepping up. But as I say the organisation has not yet grown up enough to put square pegs in square holes.
Does the avaerage 20 year old have the life experiences and maturity of dealing with a dispariate group of people, cadets parents staff and those above in the 21st centuary given the education system and society we have today.
The experienced people can do much of it while the new officer gains experience and takes on more of the role. It is part of the responsibility of SNCOs to help develop junior officers. A wise JO will take that advice and work with their team, while accepting that the buck stops there. You know, like the air force has done for decades!
Ideally we would not have anybody taking over a command until they had done SCC and become eligible for Flt Lt. Numbers do not permit us to do that we we need to draw from the staff we have.
If an SNCO/WO wants to run a unit they should get their butts commissioned. We should not sideline any person who has taken on the additional responsibility of a commission simply due to their lack of experience.
Does the average 24 year old?
We are not the RAF, we do not the same structures etc that exist in the RAF, Army or RN.
Not every ATC squadron has experienced staff to baby sit a new officer put in charge.
A new officer in the RAF will have people above them to guide them and people “below” them to guide them and they won’t be fully in charge for some time.
I agree but HQAC has conspired for years to make being OC about as appealing as bucket of cold vomit, so people shy away even if they are commissioned. Therefore we should be utilising the staff we have regardless of the badge they wear.
Only because the higher organisation can’t see beyond braid. It’s not side lining people it’s utilising the best people to do the job, not just because they have ‘the right badge’.
A hell of a lot more, I by the age of 24 at times responsible for over a hundred hospital patients and four wards on nights dealing with families and the bereved, by 26 an RAF officer. Look now aircrew are rarely below 25 and the days of 21 year olds being V bomber captains are long gone.
Look at RAF history, Gibson was a squadron commander at 26 same as Cheshire, you wouldn’t given that to a 20 year old due to lack of experience.
When air cadet officer training lasts (at least) 24 weeks you can use that argument.
And SERE bumped up to the last term of main course toknow include such things as weapon use for doctors nurses and dentists.
I know the flipside to the argument is that officers these days go through OASC to get in, which probably leads to a better and more uniform standard of person going through, and they’re right.
But OASC measures potential, not ability. Potential has to be trained and nurtured, and given experience to develop.
A 20 year old, with the best will in the world, won’t have that. And, a lesser point, they’re unlikely to have credibility with parents either.
[quote="bob, post:27, topic:4961, full:true"]
Look at RAF history, Gibson was a squadron commander at 26 same as Cheshire, you wouldn’t given that to a 20 year old due to lack of experience.
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Correct me if I’m wrong but didnt Cheshire actuall ask to be demoted from Group Captain as he thought himself too young and over-whealmed by his immediate subordinated? (I believe he actually quoted that he was having to work with a WO twice his age who knew QRs backwards and frequently ran rings round him.
Even then Cheshire, Gibson and even RAF SNCO aircrew today were all doing that role as their principle paid employment, backed by service law, managing people who could be thrown into jail for insubordination.
The Air Cadets is volunteer world and if the volunteers all tell you “No we don’t want to” then you haven’t really got much recourse. Its at this point the life experience kicks in.
Re the quick debate about the ranks & NCO vs Commissioned - the rank indicates the level of commitment that we have willingly volunteered for, not just experience.
The question comes back to does being the CO fit in with your personal life, can you command the staff team there and how long are you looking to stay? It will take you 18months to get a handle on things before any reforms you want to implement will start to kick in. Any time less than 2 years is pretty much a place holder CO anyway and difficult staff will just wait you out.
But as others have said - make it your own choice.
C-T,
I think both, Cheshire wanted back on operations and AVM Cochrane OC 5 Group need an outstanding CO and he dropped rank to Wing Commander to take command. Two totally different personalities and command styles between Cheshire and Gibson.
In the RAF, just out of SERE at Cranwell, leaned on our Sargeant, great guy and knew the system.
Apples and oranges.
For starters, reserve IOT isn’t anywhere near 24 weeks long…
On the other hand a shiny new reservist Officer won’t have SNCO’s who might be no older, and no less experience than him, he’ll also have vastly more experienced and more senior officers working in close proximity to him - all very different from being a 20yo OC with a 21yo Sgt and who’s evermore frantic calls to his sector commander and wing commander go straight to answer phone.
I think we are missing the elephant in the room with this topic. Where have all of the officers gone. I know i am going to sound like a moaning old git but when i was a cadet in the 1980s most sqms had at least 2 officers with most having 3 and bigger sqns 4 or 5. There was a pool of experienced staff itching to get their hands on the big chair.
Fast forward to the present and now in my wing it is slightly over 1 1/2 officers per sqn with fg off rank almost extinct.
Indeed - and it’s not just numbers, but experience.
When I was a cadet - 87 to 91 - Officers and SNCO’s were overwhelming 30’s and older. Officers in their 20’s were a real minority, YO’s commanding DF’s were a recognised ‘thing’, but 22yo Plt Off’s running Sqn’s? No they just weren’t a species that existed.
The cynical might think that HQAC and the lower rungs of the Riech prefer very much younger, less (life) experienced OC’s because they are rather less likely to say ‘no’ than some 40+ yo for whom the ACO isn’t the focus of their life…
I think the problem with the lack of officers is threefold:
A) staff seem to push capable older cadets to SNCO, and older staff recruits to officer, which means we have an organisation full of young SNCOs, and old officers
B) the SNCO route is seen as being an easier route into uniform by cadets.
C) the SNCO route IS quicker and easier a route into uniformed staff. We’ve had a very capable CWO kicking his heels for over a year waiting for his commission process to start. He’s given up and asked for SNCO instead.
Really? Do you really think that young people are no longer as capable as you were “back in the day”? And I have no idea which aircrew you are referring to, but from sitting here right now I could knock on the doors of probably 20 aircrew who are well under 25. Aircrew who on a daily basis are wholly responsible for 80 million pounds of aircraft and several lives. Yeah they aren’t commanding Squadrons, but funnily enough we aren’t at war! So it’s a bit strange to make that comparison.
OP, try to ignore the crusty, grumpy old sods on this forum and do what you think is best. Take advice from the people around you, and if I were you I’d give it a bash.
My advice would be to hold off. At 20 you are brand new and need some experience under your belt as an officer. Ideally you would have had a few roles on a Squadron like Training Officer or Adj. This is very different to being a cadet and personally I would say your too young to be handed the responsibility. This is no reflection on you or any other 20 year old, it just sounds too early as you haven’t had the opportunity to be a Squadron officer.
There’s no question of people’s capabilities, age is not a barrier by any means, but those you refer to a) have had a hell of a lot more training, and b) have a much more robust support mechanism. Neither of which are likely or guaranteed in the current ATC.
Certainly the advice to the OP is to do what they think is best, but the more informed that decision can be, the better.
Teflon is bang on here. It will, no matter what you say take over your life. I would ensure you are at a point in your career where you can balance your career development with delivering a great sqn. Its taken me 8 years to become comfortable enough to take on a management role within in a sqn and that doesnt even involve running the thing.
If i was in your shoes i would spend a good couple of years covering both the adj and training role so as a CO you can support your stafg through experience